The Evangelical Universalist Forum

John 5:29

Jn.5.29 is often used as a text to affirm ECT. But let’s look at it in context and in the Greek.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

First note that Jesus affirms that those who have faith in Jesus have already passed from death to life. So could it be that judgment is a means of passing from death to life. We’ve already embraced the judgment of God and recognize our need of forgiveness and restored relationship with God. We’ve been convicted of our sins and repented, turning to God.

Second note that Jesus affirms that all the “dead will hear the voice of the Son of God” and thus live. Does this mean then that all shall have eternal life? It seems to follow based on the immediately preceeding scentence.

Then note that Jesus says that even those in the graves will hear his voice and come forth, and it makes sence then that Life will follow for they too have heard the voice of the Sone of God.

The following scentence, vs.29 is what I’d like to propose can be interpreted differently than the way it is commonly interpreted.

οἱ τὰ ἀγαθὰ ποιήσαντες, εἰς ἀνάστασιν ζωῆς, οἱ δὲ τὰ φαῦλα πράξαντες, εἰς ἀνάστασιν κρίσεως.

ἀγαθὰ - good, ποιήσαντες - poieo, verb, to do, to make. The significant thing is that poieo is in Mood a “Participle”.

*The Greek participle corresponds for the most part to the English participle, reflecting “-ing” or “-ed” being suffixed to the basic verb form. The participle can be used either like a verb or a noun, as in English, and thus is often termed a “verbal noun.” *

In other words this phrase ἀγαθὰ ποιήσαντες can be translated as “good doings” or “good things done”.

This next phrase, φαῦλα πράξαντες is the same.

**φαῦλα **- phaulos, evil, and πράξαντες - prasso, verb, to practice, to exercise (habitually) is in Mood also a “Participle”.

In other words the phrase φαῦλα πράξαντες can be translated as “evil practices” or even “evil habits”.

Translating this verse as “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— good things done to the resurrection of life and evil habits to the resurrection of condemnation.”

If one translates it as “people that do good” to the ressurrection of life, and “people who practice evil”, then this means that those who have not believed in Jesus, if they’ve lead a good life will attain the ressurection of life. And if one equates ressurection of condemnation with Hell (as most infernalists do) then whether one goes to heaven or hell is based on how good a person is, not on whether they have faith in Christ or not.

It makes much more sence to me that 5.29 is speaking of eternal judgment. Coming to have faith in Jesus, we’ve already begun the process of embracing judgment and repenting. Even so of course, Paul speaks of some things in our lives being burnt up through judgment, the wood, hay, and stubble, the worthless things.

It’s also interesting the contrast between poieo/do and prasso/practice. It’s as if every little good thing a person does (believer or unbeliever) will be celebrated. But God knows that He must deal with the evil practices. Note that He doesn’t even mention evil “doings”.

I believe that judgment is an eternal reality, just like life and punishment are eternal realities. (Eternal in the sense of time-transending).

Judgment is based on works. But salvation is based on Grace. I believe that judgment also flows out of grace. And mercy certainly triumphs over judgment.

When I read this passage it gives me great hope for everyone, even me. I get the feeling that God celebrates every good thing we do, but it also warns me that our evil habits must be dealt with. It’s just good parenting skills!

I know what I’ve written is a little disjointed. I just wanted to open this passage up for discussion and get your thoughts on it too. Thanks

Don’t know if I’m ready to leap to this translation hahaha. That’s quite a change.

This is quite different from “you deserve to be eternally tortured for doing one little sin somewhere”.

I’m impressed, Sherman. But then I don’t know how excited you should let yourself get about that. :wink: Thanks for sharing this. It’s really interesting. I enjoyed reading it.

Yes, a very big change, but one I think the context bears out.

Yes, it’s VERY different, and yet this interpretation certainly seems to line up better with the character of God as I believe Him to be.

I’d love to sit down with John and ask him exactly what he meant in this passage. And I’d especially love to sit down with John and ask him what his visions (mental movie clips) recorded in Revelation said to him. John is a profound theologian who understood how important what one believes is.

Great stuff Sherman.

Its not men that are going to be destroyed, but the man in men. The evil works/flesh will be destroyed.

It continues to amaze me how we read into scripture what we believe. People who believe in ECT, see in scripture ECT even when it is not there. Jn.3.16 is a prime example. If affirms that believers will have eternal life, written to encourage everyone to believe, and doesn’t even warn about Hell or ECT. And yet I don’t know how many times someone has presented that verse as “proof” that all will not be saved.

And Hell being interpreted Into scripture sure doesn’t help. I don’t know how many times I’ve shared with people that not one word in the Hebrew or Greek text of scripture that warns of punishment for people actually means “Hell”, not Sheol, Gehenna, or Hades. And they simply do not know how to process that. Even pastors and scholars are left dumbfounded.

Belief in Hell is so firmly entrenched in their thinking that most will not even question it, regardless of the evidence against it, much less even consider that scripture can be interpretted from a different perspective.

It seems to be the central dogma of the christian world. Their entire theology crumbles when you take hell away. Their specialness goes away, like a child wondering if their parents will still love them if they have another child.

The doctrine of Hell is a foundational element of traditional Christianity. Belief in Hell is a foundational motivation for living right, evangelism, missions, faith, everything. If one takes away Hell, then it shakes the whole traditional world-view and understanding/image of God. Faith in God for the damnation of others is in many ways the source of Exclusion, the us-vs-them mentality. If one takes that away and instead embraces Faith in God for the salvation of others it removes this us-vs-them mentality and makes is “us”, as revealed in “OUR Father”. At least, this seems to be a logical outcome and that’s what it has done for me! The brotherhood of man, the family of all humanity takes on a whole new emphasis.

very interesting…just wondering if when it says “those who have done good” …is there really no notion of “those who do” in the alternative interpretation?

it’s certainly an attractive idea…

Yes, and it seems to me that many of Jesus’ parables were about the us vs them mentality. In His parables Jesus was trying to show the people that thought of themselves as us that they would soon find themselves sitting on the outside pouting about God’s wonderful plan to redeem all of His lost children.

The irony today is these same type of us folks use these very parables to prove they are going to heaven while everyone else is going to hell.

If you point this out there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Participles can be interpreted as a verb or a noun, and usually as a “verbal noun”. These in particular can be interpreted either as the people who do good vs. the people who practice evil, or good doings vs. evil practices. The context determines the best interpretation. Understanding it as “good doings vs. evil practices” seems the best interpretation to me because in reality we all do good things and practice some evil.

If one interprets it as people who do good vs. people who practice evil and interpret “ressurection of life” to = heaven, and “ressurection of condemnation” to = hell, then that means that salvation of unbelievers is based upon works, not grace.

thanks Sherman, i guess i didn’t quite grasp that the first time…i’d say your alternative view does seem to fit better.
any other Greek scholars have thoughts on this?

I don’t know why I haven’t thought of this before, but I was thinking about how best to word “good doings vs. evil practices” and think “Acts” better conveys the meaning poieo as opposed to “doings” and “habits” better conveys the concept of prosso as opposed to “practices”. So it is best translated as “good acts vs. evil practices”. To me the passage conveys the sense that God celebrates every “good Act”, but also recognizes that “evil Habits” must be dealt with.

To me it reflects the heart of God being a good Father. Wise parents celebrate the good acts of their children, often celebrating every little accomplishment, dismiss mistakes, but know that they must deal with evil habits/practices for the well-being of the child and the family.