I found this video really interesting.
Wow Sarah! Did I remember your name correctly? That was really great and worth listening to! Very moving and really highlights the difference in the attitude of God in the two systems. I’m so in love with the God of the orthodox view!!! I’d love to show it to others, but I don’t think they could get past the way this man is dressed. I know it shouldn’t be about that, of course!
being rather new to Orthodox views- but pretty familiar with christus victor, i wonder if this man was saying in the end that all will be saved, or that there is ECT…thoughts?
still a great visual image
Andrew, my impression is that when he was talking about God being a consuming fire toward those that are unrepentant that he was not thinking ECT. I guess I have little to go off of though. He sure illustrated God beautifully with those chairs! Hard to believe he’d be a proponent of the traditional ECT!
To be honest, I prefer the Orthodox view over the Protestant view from what I’ve seen of this video.
Yeah amy, you got my name right. It is quite interesting, someone said that in the protestant view , God seemed to be the one doing all of the changing.
I agree with you Lefein. Even though I’m not as well read with the Orthodox view, I can see my self leaning in that direction… but without all the religious trappings and beards
But I enjoyed the video. I like that in the Orthodox view, Man was the one that was turning away from God and God was shown as always doing all that He could to bring us back in fellowship with Him.
me too, that was beautiful!
what we do with the consuming fire…well that’s the question, i suppose. but all of what he said made sense…the protestant view was rather…black and white.
The following link is cool too! Man, I love the truly Orthodox faith!
Check out this article from the Orthodox view of hell and the afterlife and you will be shaking your in disbelief that they still miss UR. SOOOOO close and yet so far
They still believe that there is no chance of change after one dies. Thier argument against the Western Church idea of ECT could have come out of any UR resource. Reading this article made me very sad because they see the error of ECT and they see the unconditional love of God, yet still miss the greatest hope of all, God being ALL IN ALL.
They sounded so good in both videos
PS If UR was ever proven to me as in error and I had to choose between Western ECT or Orthodox… I’d go with Ortho for sure.
PPS I wonder what thier position about UR would be. The fellow never hit on it, but he did talk about the Catholic idea of purgatory.
I love the Orthodox view presented in the video; God never turns away from us in disgust, it feels so much truer than the Protestant view!
Does anyone know if there are any Orthodox Evangelicals or are they mutually exclusive terms? i.e. are only Protestants, Evangelicals? Maybe we should change from being EUs to OEUs or just OUs!!
A very nice little video.
From what I understand, there is no OE, they are a very tight group like the Catholics. What unites the Orthodox is theology. All members of the Church profess the same beliefs regardless of race or nationality. In practice and traditions, however, there are variations in style depending on country of origin and/or local custom. These local customs are referred to as differences in typica and are accepted by church leaders since they are not perceived to conflict theologically with basic Orthodox teachings.
Thus many Orthodox Churches adopt a national title (e.g. Albanian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Macedonian Orthodox, Montenegrin Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox etc.) and this title serves to distinguish which language, which bishops, and which of the typica is followed by that particular congregation. In the Middle East, Orthodox Christians have also been often referred as Roman (or Rum) Orthodox, because of their historical connection with the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire.
Members of the Church are fully united in faith and the Sacred Mysteries with all Orthodox congregations, regardless of nationality. Differences in praxis (practice) tend to be slight; they involve such things as the order in which a particular set of hymns are sung or what time a particular service is performed. In general, an Orthodox Christian could travel the globe and feel familiar with the services even if he or she did not know the language in which they were celebrated.
Sarah, Thanks for a great post. I loved the explanation with chairs and I am sure to steal the idea - just like Steve stole it from someone else! Of course penal substitution is not the only protestant or evangelical version of salvation and atonement, in spite of neo-reformed attempts to make everyone believe it is.
We have a session coming up on our discipleship course where we contrast different views of the atonement nd encourage people to think for themselves. I wanted a “table top” version of the chairs thing and … it works equally well using two pairs of sunglasses!
I do the commentary in my own words and at the end of course, being a convinced EU, I have a refining or purifying rather than a consuming fire. Just practicing it in front of my wife I found it such a moving experience, especially the “but God says…” bits.
Next time I have an opportunity to witness to someone in a café I’m going to try this. Here’s the version of the Christian message you may have heard before… and here’s the message of God’s grace that I believe…
I wish you could videotape it to show us, Revdrew!!! Nice idea with the sunglasses!
I liked that!
And the sunglasses idea is great, Drew! I second Amy’s request … I want to see a video of you doing it with sunglasses!
OK I’ll work on it, watch this space! And maybe people will take me more seriously if I grow one of those amazing “orthodox” beards… what do you think?
have I told you, it’s great to have you back. How was Rob Bell’s uncle??
Sadly it turned out they are not related however I did have a very enjoyable 1 to 1 conversation with John about EU, walking in the sierra nevada mountains with a pair of eagles soaring overhead… I have to pinch myself sometimes! The content of our conversation will have to remain private… but I’m still here, still smiling and JB is still one of my heroes.