The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Many Born-Again Christians Hold Universalist Views, Barna Fi

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#1

christianpost.com/news/many-born-again-christians-hold-universalist-views-barna-finds-49883/

The report on what Americans believe about universalism and pluralism comes at a time when not only evangelicals, but even prominent secular media, are debating the Christian teachings on salvation and the idea of universalism due to Pastor Rob Bell’s book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived…

25% of born-again Christians said all people are eventually saved or accepted by God.

26% percent, said a person’s religion does not matter because all faiths teach the same lessons.

40%, of born-again Christians said they believe Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

43% of Americans in general agreed with the statement “It doesn’t matter what religious faith you follow because they all teach the same lessons,” while 54% disagreed.

#2

hmm, it’d be interesting to learn which christians are nominal ones who don’t really believe specifics versus those who have come to a universalist viewpoint through study!

i think it’s great that people are opening to the larger hope as it’s been called, but i do worry that some do it for the reasons non universalists are concerned. ie so they don’t have to wrestle with hard Scriptures, Biblical inerrancy, or mission.

it’s just as wrong to lazily go along with what a universalist says without checking than to go along with a standard preacher with no questioning or personal study. God wants a relationship, not a bunch of people who just go with the flow, whatever sounds easiest, etc. if i’m making sense lol…it’s been a long day and i should be sleeping :slight_smile:

#3

Yes I think you’re right corpselight…

This has been out there for several months now (recall reading about it early on) and the entire impetus seemed to me to be an indication of unwillingness to “offend” by one’s beliefs. And certainly not to exclude. Doesn’t matter what you believe; ALL paths lead to God. That sort of thing.

So it’s not the sort of “Universalism” we generally mean here which is deeply rooted in the finished work of Christ, and takes very seriously mission and judgement and God’s redemptive punishings. (wrath, refining fires, etc etc)

As an interesting side note to this is the recent listing of the Six Megathemes Emerge from Barna Group Research in 2010

barna.org/culture-articles/462-six-megathemes-emerge-from-2010

note especially #1 The Christian Church is becoming less theologically literate.

This would fit what you are saying I think corpselight.

Bobx3

#4

i think it’s possible we’re seeing a trend of quantity, not quality…i don’t know what level that applies to, though! also it seems people are lazier about spiritual matters, which could have a variety of causes.

almost makes me think it’s “better” for people to adhere to ECT if it stops them being lazy…or perhaps we need to be more vocal in our defence of Universalism that it is NOT an excuse for laziness, that if you don’t witness to your neighbour and they end up having to be “refined” for however long (even if it’s not eternal), you are guilty of their blood…and perhaps due the same period of refinement. there’s the being spewed out of the mouth of God as well…loads of stuff to be concerned about, although at the end of the day it’s not fear of punishment that changes lives, it’s love…but some of us (myself included) occasionally need the stick and not the carrot. stoopid hoomans! :slight_smile:

what do you think, Bob, Oxy (even though i know you’re not a universalist :slight_smile: )?

#5

Just as I think most people have gone with the flow with the traditional teaching of hell, they are probably doing the same, now that universalist and ‘near universalist’ views are hitting the mainstream and gaining steam. Most people are basically lazy, and don’t want to put in the hard work to find out the truth for themselves.

#6

Searching the memory banks oxy, I found this…
Barna Group on Universalism…
[Barna Group on Universalism…)

This relates to a question I asked some time ago titled:
How should UR change us?
[How should UR change us?)

It is a very interesting question and one I ponder very often.
Would I rather discuss God with someone who is deeply engaged, studies seriously, yet concludes ECT? – OR –
discuss God with what we’ve taken to calling a “Lazy” Universalist; one who has not idea why he holds that conviction, it just satisfies his sense of “fairness”.
It’s a tough question!!

Fact is that when we bring Universalism in to the picture, we do run the risk of folks embracing it, yet having little clue as to why. And without all the undergirding structures of respect for scripture, judgement, holiness, and so on, one really should wonder if it might be better to go the fear route of hell or annihilation. If only to have the whole thing taken seriously!

Of course it really can make us flustered to be seen tolerating ideas which we believe make God look very bad. On the other hand, we also get flustered to find God not being taken seriously!

I hope you can find time to read Robins essay that I mention in the above link corpselight

Bobx3

#7

Nearly 20 years ago, a leading evangelical told me he believed the grace of God would catch everyone on the end, but he never preached it. "People are such mealy-mouthed, conniving bastards, " he said, “they’d just try to take advantage of the situation.”

#8

:laughing: So True.

#9

just had a read, Bob…very good. yeah it could be that some are not ready, and it could be that some won’t be ready for some time…
dunno what God can do with that level of laziness (very well put by your pastor friend, AllanS!) but then again, He’s helping me gradually. i’m too lazy about many things myself. i can only credit Him with any good changes to my attitude, and maybe that’s all it’ll be with the others.
it makes sense though that there will be a reckoning for those who are luke warm. that shows pretty poor character and a damnable lack of gratitude…to put it mildly. i can see God being VeRY angry with this and being very harsh, though still i do believe there’s hope at the end, otherwise what is the point of correcting them?

#10

Not surprising. Generally speaking, the body of Christ are ignorant of the word of God. :cry:

#11

No kidding, TV!

and

Alas, Revival . . . too, too true.

But I don’t think we need to lie to people in order to get them to pay attention – that is, make empty threats. It’s threat enough not to hear, “Well done, good and faithful servant,” or barring that, to spend some time in purification (hell?) getting, well, the hell burned out of us, so to speak. All in love, to be sure, but still . . . !

And not only is the church ignorant of the word of God, it’s also ignorant of so many other things. :frowning: In fact, the American public at large is clueless about so many things. And they’re okay with that – they just don’t care.

I really believe the world economic collapse we’re beginning to experience is the judgment/mercy of God in slapping us to wake us, so to speak. This will be a time for God’s true children to shine in the darkness if we can bring ourselves to genuinely trust Him and know Him. Things don’t remain in a state of inertia forever. That which is not sustained by work and energy soon slides into chaos. But chaos and darkness are an opportunity for light to shine forth in its glory and be noticed – not as in our artificial daylight, now fading.

So yeah, I wouldn’t put a lot of confidence in that poll. It sounds like the people polled are clueless about pretty much everything, so how should we credit their “stand” on universalism?

#12

Yeah; the economic collapse has to happen, I think, in order to pave the way for kingdom principles to take over (In which the true sons will shine). The world system of buying and selling has to be replaced by the kingdom economy of giving and receiving.

#13

Well said, Melchizedek!