The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Mark Driscoll

Thanks for sharing bro :slight_smile: I thought the guy was a jerkface when I first heard that ‘God hates you’ quote, but when we really reflect about, we have to remember that he’s a guy who has his good points and his bad points, like anyone else, and though some of what he may say if off-kilter, that doesn’t mean everything he has to say is.
This is true of Piper, MacArthur (whom I pretty much hated for years, for some personal reasons, but God has helped get over that), and any other preacher or theologian out there who really gets us wound up.
And whatever the case, if we believe that God loves them, shouldn’t we also? :slight_smile:

Blessings to you bro :slight_smile:

Matt

i just thought it was funny, that anyone that disagreed with him was not manly!
it takes a man to be a girl, is my retort! :laughing:

but more seriously, i care that he believes he’s getting “results”, when all he’s doing really is indoctrinating many, many people with this indefensible theology.

he may have some good points, but seriously…

Y’all have put a grin on my face and warmed my heart this morning with this thread; great wit and wisdom abounding here.

Driscoll reminds me of a schoolyard bully in his worst moments captured in video and print. That being said, I was bullied all through school; it wasn’t until I got into my 20’s that I realized I could tolerate a lot more physical and emotional pain than I thought when I was younger. So, it’s a challenge for me these days to avoid reacting to those I perceive as being a bully with extreme nastiness, either physical or verbal.

Arrogant certitude. I can’t stand it. My ideal is for me to be open, honest, and kind in discussions. The danged problem is that I’m filled with arrogant certitude on a variety of subjects, and when it hits me, I may as well be saying “Thus sayeth the LORD!!!”; my actions certainly give off that feel when I step into my certitude.

One insidious little thing I’ve always been fond of saying to the folks that want to tell me I’m going to hell for this or that is, “Well, I’ll be sure to save you a seat next to me!” Now that my heart and mind are moving to the realm of Universalism, I’m going to have to re-think some things. Either my attitudes towards Universalism or my attitudes towards those with whom I disagree is going to have to change! :laughing: :wink:

Thanks to all of you for putting a good grin on my face today. I love it when I get forced to re-think my pre-conceived notions and attitudes (especially when it’s in a way that makes me laugh at myself!)

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Forgive me for chaining these together to form a pattern and maybe seeming to do violence to the text. But when I think of these passages together, it seems to me that in this new society we’re given by the Lord, we’re provided mothers, brothers, and sisters, but intentionally not fathers. We are to have one Father.

The implication to me is that all these “father figures” are not provided to us by the Lord, but are usurpers. Instead, as men, we have been provided to the Body as brothers, not fathers.

Driscoll is the symptom (and result) of an agreement between the Dominator and the Dominated.

Apparently, he thinks God is Chuck Norris? :laughing:

Do our brothers across the pond listen to Paul Anderson Walsh at thegraceproject.com in London. You really should, and get his name out. Simply amazing teacher…and at least teeters on the brink of UR.

I posted this on my blog a while back. John Stackhouse, a well-known theologian, takes some strong issue with Mark’s exegesis. It’s pretty eye-opening.

splitframeofreference.blogspot.c … scoll.html

–Nick

OK Nick, I’m no fan of Driscoll but to be fair to him, the critical review you have posted was written 18 months ago. I’m not sure what the point is in digging that up again now.

I just found the article itself pretty recently. It eluded me for roughly that long, and I’ve been a fan of Stackhouse for years. I think it’s nice to have a respectful blog post on the topic. And I believe Mark is still using this type of exegesis, so I would consider it very relevant.

–Nick

Hey Nick

Any stick we can bash Driscoll over the head with is good with me, friend. :smiley: The bigger the better. :smiley: :smiley:

Seriously, if the article is relevant to what Driscoll *continues *to preach, then it’s entirely legitimate to post it, IMHO.

Cheers

Johnny

I would agree. From listening to him preach and do interviews, his stance doesn’t seem to have changed but rather grown horns.

As someone who has been in a spiritually abusive situation, I find much of what he says and the authority he seems to be wielding these days, disturbing. I would normally refrain from forming an opinion about a ministry I’m never likely to sit under and therefore only receive a partial story. But since Driscoll shouts his opinions all over the place, I feel no such compunction with him.

I find his reasoning illogical at times. And regardless of his at times good encouragement of men to man up, his attitude towards women and the feminine nature in general (like his thoughts on effeminate men), I find deeply repugnant. I do wonder at times, what he would make of the persecuted church. Very often you hear stories of pastors being locked up for years. And their wives not only raise the children and feed them with their bread winner imprisoned, but also end up pastoring the church. Thriving churches. Are their ministries invalid? Under his Calvinism, did God not predestine them to be in this position?

I’ve had people telling me I can’t do things for God my whole life because I have the wrong genitals. And I’ve noticed, usually these people tell me God ordained my gender to do all the things they don’t want to do, like clean up their mess. A bit convenient really. A doctrine that means one gender gets to do all the exciting, fulfilling stuff, whilst all the naff stuff is done by the other!!!

Don’t get me wrong. I do like doing traditionally feminine things, like making a home nice. And I’m not knocking women who love being a housewife and don’t want to do anything else. That’s great for them. It’s more the pigeonholing and threats of displeasing God that irk me. I’d like to see Driscoll and his ilk take on Deborah or Jael and see how far they get!! Humph!!

Sorry for the rant, but when you’ve been subjected to sermons all your life about jezebels, evil feminists, being silent, being easily deceived etc, you start to lose patience with trying to understand this lot, and instead develop a desire to pull tongues and blow raspberries at them

Jael, you might be interested in this blog. The “blog queens” at the site spend quite a bit of energy confronting the compartmentalism trend common in the Calvinistic camp.

They are also doing I think an outstanding job of exposing the abusive cultish environments that exist in places like Mars Hill, SGM, and others. There are some really mind blowing things going on.

thewartburgwatch.com/

Thanks david. I’d seen them before. And you’re right. I do appreciate them! And I think the effects of abuses need to be exposed. And exposed by the church itself. Otherwise, we look to the world as though we need regulating by them. And how can we correct mistakes in the Body if we don’t expose them?