Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage

[Sherman]

You’re right, it is a completely different perspective! Couples marry thinking that secures their relationship and they fail to recognize that, well, change and growth and death is a natural part of life! And if we do not care for our relationship and grow together, we will grow apart and run the risk of the relationship dying and divorce terminating the marriage!

To me marriage is like a wiskey barrell. The slats are the various aspects of the relationship, our mental, emotional, physical, financial, spiritual lives together. These various slats of the relationship are held together by steel rings (marriage covenant, civil law, social pressure, familial support, and religious support). And even though these steel rings seem give us a sense of permanance, all we need do is break a slat or two and the whole thing starts to fall apart!

I was teaching this in an evening 4-hour seminar I held on this subject. One of the ladies that came interrupted my presentation and in frustration asked something along the lines of, “I’m in the middle of a divorce right now; and well, if marriage is breakable, what do I do to have a marriage that lasts?” And out of my mouth came, “If you want a lasting marriage, marry a man of compassion and integrity and be one yourself!” Soon after that we had a break and I don’t think she came back in, if I recall correctly. She didn’t like the response apparently, but I think it is what she needed to hear. I got the impression that she was the type of lady who had what I call the “bad-boy syndrom”. She was drawn to men who were dangerous, who were a challenge to win and keep, who all the ladies liked and wanted a relationship with. She was not interested in character but in excitement. I could be absolutely wrong for I didn’t and don’t know her; but that’s the impression I got when she asked her question. (Oh, and I’m not saying that was your problem; it’s just an example of why I believe it is important to recognize that marriage is breakable, fragile even.)

Over the years I’ve pondered why so many marriages end in divorce, especially in the American culture. I believe that one of the primary reasons is our Dating system. Think about it. What we practice we do. In the dating system, young people, long before they are ready or able to marry, start and break relationships. They start a relationship solely to meet their personal needs and wants. When that relationship no longer meets their needs/wants or another possibly better relationship presents itself, they break that relationship and move on to a new one. We make and break relationships, sometimes from childhood, accumulating emotional and metal baggage. And then one day we decide to marry someone and make that relationship permanent, when all we’ve done is practiced starting and ending relationships! Why then would we think that “marriage” would change us/them? It just doesn’t make sense!

I’ve taught my children to have more of a courting mindset, to avoid personal intimate relationships until they are ready to marry. And even then when they are ready to marry (financially, career, housing, spiritually, emotionally, etc.) then consider your existing relationships/friendships and ask God’s guidance in selecting one to continue growing togther for life. My sons haven’t followed that perfectly, but on the continuum of extremes are leaning on that side of things. This has protected their hearts and the hearts of the young ladies they are friends with. In our culture though this is very hard to do. My sons seem to always have several young ladies trying to draw them into a personal intimate somewhat committed relationship.

I believe we need to approach MDR much more practically and realistically, and less religiously and romantically.

[Cindy_Skillman]

You make a lot of sense, Sherman. Now, if they’d only listen to us. But honestly, when I was that age I did just what you’re describing. It was just the way it was done. As for the bad boy thing, though I suppose that tendency in women has probably been around for a long time, but it would help, I think, if Hollywood and Nashville and Harlequin didn’t work so very hard to sell impressionable young women on the “cool,” exciting, dangerous boys.

Blessings, Cindy

[Matt_Wiley]

I think I’m at the point in my relationship with Kaylyn where I’ve invested so much time and so much of my heart into it (we’ve been a couple for about five and a half years now, engaged for three and a half and planning on getting married this coming December) that it’s unthinkable for me to give up on it.

There are times we have disagreements or get upset with each other or need to work things out (which we always do), but all in all our relationship has been positive, and even after all this time we still have a lot of affection for each other and enjoy each other’s company, and care deeply for one another.

There are difference between us, mostly in how we think and in how we communicate, but we share many of the same views and beliefs and convictions on things (for example, she believes in UR too, and long before I did), we both have a healthy sense of humor (which often diffuses any tension there may be between us), we’re both writers (I’m more into writing poetry and reflective stuff, and she’s more into writing stories, but still), we both have known loneliness and both come from broken homes (so we relate to each other in that) and we both have a childlike way of looking at the world sometimes (we’re both kids at heart, in other words), among other things…

Our biggest differences are in how I’m more of a deep thinker (or maybe in how I just think a lot, or as Kaylyn says ‘too much’ ) whereas Kaylyn tries to keep things simple (she says she just wants to live and enjoy her life), and in how I’m more about talking (again, ‘too much’ )and she’s more about body language. So I think those will likely be our biggest challenges, being able to understand each other and communicate with each other… so with these things in mind, I know it’s not going to be easy…

But then I think sometimes differences can be a good thing… recently I got into watching the Rocky series of films, and I remember in the first one how different Rocky and his girl Adrian were, but when Adrian’s brother Paulie asks him why Rocky wants to be with his sister, Rocky says ‘we fill each other’s gaps’.
I can relate to that… not to say that Kaylyn and I complete each other (a la Jerry Maguire), only God can do that, but that we fit together somehow, some of my strengths her weaknesses, some of her strengths my weaknesses, that sort of thing… basically, I get this idea that we would be stronger or more whole together as a couple then we would be apart as individuals… I have no illusions that Kaylyn is going to meet all of my needs, or that I’m going to meet all of her’s… we’ve even talked about this.

But nevertheless, I believe that our relationship is a gift, and a good thing worth holding onto and keeping alive.

There are a few ‘signposts’ as I call them, little miracles, that sort of thing, that have encouraged me to believe that God brought Kaylyn and I together and means for us to be together, and I began my relationship with her around the same time that I came back to faith in God after wandering off for four-five years, and being with her has brightened my life in a lot of ways, and she has helped me to keep going (I hope she feels the same way), so I couldn’t imagine losing her… if I did, I think I would feel as though I’d lost a big part of my soul.

I know that death is a part of life, so I know that it is always something to think about and keep in mind, though I do not fear it as much as I used to, but I think losing her in that way would be easier (though by no means easy) to cope with than our relationship coming to an end… so I can’t really imagine that right now, and would rather not, as that would be worrying.

I know that marriage will not be all roses and sunshine. I know it will be hard. But I want to go into it with commitment in my heart and my mind.

Sherman, I agree with you that marriage (or any human relationship, really) is something fragile, and therefore should be protected and handled with care. And I agree that teaching that divorce is sinful in all cases and marriage can never be broken in good conscience is just wrong, not to mention unkind and oppressive.

But, on the other hand, commitment is, as always, an important issue.
Like my friend Charles Slagle says ‘love is commitment’.
My belief is that if two people are committed to loving one another and staying together, and are willing to do anything and everything to make things work, and if they are both leaning on God for support, then they’ll make it. But then of course, this is the ideal. Love is a two way street, and if only one and not the other or neither are committed and asking for and are open to help, then not much could be done unless that changed.
And, of course, I know character and maturity have a lot to do with our ability to remain committed. Which is why I pray that Kaylyn and I will both grow in character and maturity together as time goes on, and our commitment to one another will grow and be strengthened as well, and that God would help us to love each other and stay together for the long haul…

I would appreciate your prayers in this as well, Sherman (and you too Cindy, and anyone else reading this).
I need all the support I can get.

Blessings to you all, and peace

Matt

[Matt_Wiley]

Guess this thread has slowed down a bit, lol

[Nottirbd]

“The church, in teaching that marriage is indissoluble has set up people to fail in marriage because they often 1) do not focus on finding a mate with character, 2) do not realize that there are reasonable expectations within marriage, 3) do not take the necessary steps to lay a solid foundation for their marriage, feed their marriage to keep it healthy, go to the doctor when it is sick, or guard their marriage. The traditional doctrine of indissolubility sets people up to fail at marriage because they do not recognize the reality that their marriage is breakable.”

Sherman -

I want to thank you for this. My Christian upbringing contributed to my divorce in exactly this way - never even considering divorce as an option, I never made my “reasonable expectations” a bottom-line (since I didn’t feel like I could “insist” on certain fundamental behaviors, like respect). Notwithstanding Pilgrims argument, I actually reached a point where I felt that for the sake of my two sons, I couldn’t remain in a relationship where there was so much disrespect. I created that situation by not, early on, communicating that certain behavior was intolerable. And let’s be clear that “intolerable” means…“will not go on” which means if it continues, we’re done. After 20 years of appeasement (because divorce wasn’t an option, so nothing was “intolerable”) it became painfully, soul-rendingly clear that divorce was unavoidable.

Had I gone into the marriage more ready to fight for my “bottom line” (and everyone has one in a relationship), my marriage would have had a chance perhaps. But the “sanctity” of marriage can interfere with its proper function.

[Sherman]

Yes, not only is it important to have healthy personal boundaries within any relationship, especially within marriage, it is important to recognize and continue to meet the primary needs that such relationships/marriages were meant to fulfill. The primary need addressed by marriage is “aloneness”. Whether one takes the Genesis creation account as literal or as an inspired drama allegory, a primary message is that marriage was instituted to meet the basic human need of companionship. Frankly, many couples get married as best of friends and then over time forget to be friends and forget to seek to meet the companionship needs of their partner. They grow apart instead of growing closer together. And one morning one or both wake up and realize that they no longer like eachother, no longer enjoy spending time with eachother.

The basic needs that are to be met in marriage are companionship (security and belonging), physical intimacy, and procreation. Most people have these pschological/physical/chemical needs and expect them to be met throught their marriage. When these are not met it sets up the person to seek another relationship for those needs to be met. And the needs of men tend to be different than the needs of women, generally speaking. For example, men tend to need respect and a regular outlet for their sexual needs. Woment tend to need love, security, and an outlet for their emotional needs.

By failing to recognize the purposes of marriage and failing to meet these needs for eachother, it sets the couple up for failure and ultimately divorce. The church, in teaching that divorce is not an option, that marriage is indissoluble focuses on forbidding divorce rather than helping people have healthy fulfilling marriages, or at least that’s been my experience.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, I am NOT saying or implying that marriages should be cast aside just because a person’s needs or wants are not being met. But I am saying that many marriages do end in divorce because of one spouse failing to recognize and meet the needs of the other. To me, forbidding divorce is like forbidding someone to die; it’s useless and powerless. It would be much better to teach the person how to have healthy habits and to take necessary steps to protect one’s life.