The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Matthew 25:46 And Everlasting Punishment

Evangelical Universalism
#1

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matt. 25:46

The synonymous Hebrew and Greek words translated as eternal in passages like the above simply mean a long duration or long lasting. Rotherham’s literal translation always translates the words as age abiding. This makes sense. While eternity is a long duration there are other periods of time that are long lasting as well. Being in the belly of a fish for 3 days and 3 nights is a long time. Notice that the passage that describes the time frame of Jonah’s 3 day and 3 night stay in the belly of a fish is the word translated as eternal. The words in Hebrew and Greek simply mean long lasting or a long duration. It doesn’t specify how long. Only that it is a long time period. It doesn’t have to be the same in every instance. The above scripture would be better translated this way:

"And these will go away into long lasting punishment, but the righteous into long lasting life.” - Matt. 25:46

They don’t have to be the same length in each instance. This is especially true because the Greek word for punishment here means correction. This is not everlasting at all.

#2

True enough Cole :slight_smile: . But many modern scholars would argue - backed up by Jesus’ own specific explanation of ‘eternal life’ (Greek = aionios zoe) as the life that comes from knowing God, that the phrase ‘eternal life’ should be understood as having a qualitative, not quantitive, meaning (or at the very least both a quantitive and a qualitative meaning). So perhaps an even better, more theologically accurate translation would be:

“And these will go away into the correction of God, but the righteous into the life of God.”

All the best

Johnny

#3

For those of you interested I got my definitions of the word as indefinite duration from the back of Rotherham’s literal translation of the Bible. He notes that the word can mean “age” but this isn’t the primary definition. The word means indefinite duration. He also notes that this word comes from the Hebrew Olam. Olam is the Greek word’s parent term. A quick look in the Strongest NASB Exhaustive concordance reveals that the first, main, and primary definition Olam is “long duration”. The Greek word is used to translate Olam. The most accurate translation is:

"And these will go away into long lasting correction, but the righteous into long lasting life.” - Matt. 25:46

In neither case does it state how long. That wasn’t the point. The same can be said of the term’s other usage throughout the Bible as in: “The long lasting God” etc. etc.

#4

The point of the Greek and Hebrew terms that are used is that it’s a long duration. It doesn’t specify how long. Even when applied to God. A good study of the words as they are used in the Bible show this:

Sodom is destroyed with long lasting fire

God is the long lasting God

The hills and mountains are long lasting

A man is said to be a slave for a long time

To be in a belly of a fish for three days and nights is a long time

The word itself doesn’t mean forever or eternal but eternity is long lasting. The words indicate a long duration of unspecified length. Hence, Rotherham’s Literal Translation translates it as age-abiding. In these contexts it is long lasting or a long duration.

#5
#6

The argument made that because the passage is a parallelism the Greek word cannot take on it’s finite meaning in one instance and it’s eternal meaning in another doesn’t hold. I’m being consistent by using the Greek words meaning as “long duration” both times. The term in and of itself doesn’t mean forever although it can refer to eternity because eternity is long lasting. The Greek word for punishment does mean punishment but if you will check out the lexicons you will see that it’s corrective punishment. This is how we know that the long lasting of the first part is limited. The long lasting life of the second part isn’t limited because we read from scriptures that the righteous are immortal. The word that is consistently translated in the parallelism doesn’t tell us how long “life” is only that it’s long lasting. I have followed the principle of consistency in interpreting the Greek as “long lasting” in both instances. If you have another principle that you think I have violated then please present it so we can all see it.

#7

I think JP’s answer above hits the nail on the head… it helps to understand the ‘qualitative’ nature of everlasting in terms of ‘totality’ i.e., fullness, as in Jn 17:3 & Jn 10:10b. Thus to know God is to know Life; none other than the reality that Jesus brought to the fore on behalf of all.

As to everlasting being tired to an age… we see this often in the OT where for example God makes various “everlasting covenants” with Israel – to the degree or age God dealt with Israel in a specific way to that degree or age those covenants stood firm. Circumcision is a classic example of an OT everlasting covenant… and yet who in light of Christ and Paul’s understanding of his work would dispute that such found its fullness or end in Him.

#8

Three days and three nights surely are not LONG lasting, though them may seem LONG when one is in the belly of a fish!
I notice you have translated “kolasis” as “corrrection.” Very good! The word “kolasis” does not mean “punishment”, at least not retributive punishment. The word was first used in connection with pruning plants with a view to correcting their growth. Later it was used in the sense of correcting people’s behaviour through the use of providing unpleasant consequences of that behaviour. It is in this sense that a loving parent corrects (or “punishes” if you insist) his child. A loving parent doesn’t “punish” his child merely as a means of causing him pain because he “deserves” it.

I would translate the verse exactly as you have except I would delete the word “long”.

"And these will go away into lasting correction, but the righteous into lasting life.”

That which is lasting may endure for either a long or a short time.

#9

Thanks Paidion.

Let’s say people are right about the parallelism and they both have to be the same length. Since the punishment is finite then so is the new heavens and earth. The Bible seems to say that there will be death in the new heavens and earth. It’s not forever. Check this out:

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth…No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred and the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed. Isaiah 65:20

When Revelation says there will be no more death in the new creation it speaking of spiritual death. Only the righteous will dwell there. Maybe there is a time after the new heaven and earth where all will live forever.

#10

In a similar vein of thought the corresponding “new creation” is likewise “spiritual” aka ‘the new covenant’.

#11

People ARE right about the parallelism. But that doesn’t imply that 'they both have to be the same length." Why not? because there is nothing in the meaning of “aionios” which indicates any length of time, either temporal or eternal.

The word means “lasting” with no indication of “how long”. Thus Jonah’s time in the belly of the fish was “lasting” although it lasted only three days. The stone of a particular wall in Greek literature was “lasting”, but certainly not “everlasting”. The word “aionios” was used in Greek to describe an individual’s jail sentence of three years. Yes, that sentence was “lasting” but not “everlasting.”

The correction of those who didn’t help the needy in Matt 25:46 is lasting, but not everlasting. The life into which those who did help the needy is also “lasting” (and happens to be “everlasting” as well).

#12

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into age lasting (aionios) corrective punishment (kolasis) [6th age], but the righteous into age lasting (aionios) life [5th age]. the 7th age Father will be All in All.

such as 1 Timothy 4:10, which confirm the truth of the Bible that God is indeed the Saviour of all men. In addition to this, it should be noted that the Greek word for punishment used in Matthew 25:46 is kolasis, and the meaning of kolasis is ‘corrective punishment’ as confirmed by Strong’s Concordance number G2851.

  1. The Pre-Adamic Age
  2. The Adamic Age, from Adam until Noah’s flood
  3. The Age of Israel under the Old Covenant of the Law
  4. The Age of the Church under the New Covenant of Grace
  5. The Millennial Age of the Kingdom of God
  6. The Lake of Fire Judgement Age
  7. The Eternal Age of the Kingdom of God
#13

Hmmmm… Are these the seven universalist dispensations?

#14

go to Godsplanforall.com to see a mystery about Pre-Adamic Age, i myself didn’t know that, but about this verse they didn’t write similar to my opinion here, my guessing is this, because i think all of the meanings of the word Aionion is [AGE] not eternal, the 7th age itself is eternal, because there is no Age after that, the Lake of fire age and 7th age can’t be together in same time, this is the real meaning of Age, all of them are Ages,

this verse is simply talking about the 1st and 2nd resurrection similar to the verse below, not the eternal life of 7th Age:

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) John 5:29
and come out–those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked things, to the resurrection of judgment.

#15

Eric, I went to godsplanforall.com ,skimmed the book, and was amazed! Not because of the teachings about the ages, but about the Father begetting the Son as His first act, and of God’s Spirit not being a third divine Person. Also that the Son is “God” in the sense of being divine, but that the Father is the only true God.

I agree too, about our not having immortal souls, but that our hope is in the resurrection of the dead.

I had come to these same conclusions long ago through reading the scriptures and the early Christian writings, but I am always pleasantly surprised to find others have discovered these truths also.

I can’t say that I am in harmony with ALL that the couple teaches. If that were the case, it would be a miracle indeed. But I am deeply impressed and have bookmarked the site.

Thanks so much, Eric, for pointing us to that website.

#16

Dr. Ernest L. Martin in his website (askelm.com) says the real trinity is God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and we the sons of God, amazing !!!? there is another website similar to this but it wrote stay tuned: Godsplanforus.com, something is really going on, and i guess end is near!

#17

and these:

studybible.info/strongs/G165

studybible.info/strongs/G166

studybible.info/strongs/G2851

an objection to Arminianism: what is the real purpose of punishment if we were forgiven almost 2000 years ago and we are righteous in his eyes? of course problem is not the sin but sinfulness, correction with destroying the wicked bad personality (soul) in the lake of fire, and why our parents didn’t kill us when we were child in order to save us from hell if these people are saying that infants are going to heaven?

i think, there is no need for eternal punishment, it is meaningless!

an objection to traditional Churches: if we were forgiven so why Jesus is in Heaven? why he is not in hell or hades (real meaning is grave or sheol) now for our punishment? when he died he was wicked because of our sins, he really was dead those 3 days to bury our sins, he was the last passover lamb, he didn’t get punishment in hell in those 3 days!

The pain of eternal hell - I'm at my breaking point