As long as God has morally sufficient and justifiable reasons for hell then it’s not unjust for it to exist. He does nothing wrong in allowing it. Those in the state of hell would have their hearts separated from all mercy as Christ says depart from me. As a result their hearts harden. They would loathe God and His children. They don’t want Him. If they don’t want to love God they don’t have to. But God is never obligated to give someone who hates Him and His children and don’t want to have anything to do with Him the gift of grace. The longer one is in hell the more wicked they become and the more just the punishment would be. What God is mainly doing by keeping evil God haters out of the new creation is protecting His holy children from the contamination and harm of evil. Even those in hell would be protected from harm. God is love and love protects. Justice is to protect and serve. Therefore, the kind of torment is the kind that would be calibrated just right to restrain the wicked from harming each other in hell. God therefore has morally sufficient and justifiable reasons for hell. In all likelihood there are infinitely many more reasons seeing that God is infinite in wisdom in knowledge and logical explanations are infinite in number. I trust God’s love and infinite wisdom and knowledge to run things.
This is such a weak argument. It’s basically relativism.
holly tree, I no longer believe as you do about hell. My understanding now is that people who die without receiving Christ and his gift of Life, simply continue under the dominion of Satan—just as they were when they were still alive. However, being no longer physically mobile, hell-Hades-Gehenna becomes the new location for their lost souls. There they remain to await judgment, but I don’t think God is punishing or tormenting people in hell. I don’t think God is angry or disappointed with people in hell.
Eventually, hell and its residents, along with Death (the enemy of God, 1 Cor. 15:26), will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14), into the healing presence of God, who, as a consuming fire of love, will, step by patient step, free unbelievers from their bondage to lies and death, and lead them all to repentance and life.
All of us currently exist in a temporal classroom, which I would argue includes the lower heavens, earth, hell, and the lake of fire (originally prepared for the devil and his angels, Mt. 25:41). But we will all graduate together into timeless eternity (se, e.g., 1 Cor. 15:22-28, “then comes the end”) —after the last resident of the lake of fire (presumably the hardest case, Lucifer), repents and chooses to enter into the City whose gates are always open (Rev. 21:25), to take the water of life freely offered within (Rev. 22:17).
As I said elsewhere,
The doctrine of Hell might just be a test God uses to draw out and identify the hateful spiteful religious people who have no love for anyone. Maybe those who relish the idea of burning people in hell forever will need the temporary remedial furnace to burn the self righteousness out of thier hearts before they can be allowed to go to heaven? I mean as long as we are just dreaming up theories with no biblical foundation, theres mine.
There are a goodly number here believing JUST THAT — and I think you’re right… dreamt up theories with no biblical foundation.
That’s a good one.
@ topic, the believe in hell demands the believe in an immortal soul, the scriptural alternative to universalism rather is annihilation, maybe with exception of the devil and angelic beings.
Why would God preserve sinners in a miserable state rather than to execute them?
I dont think Ive ever seen, though I dont doubt, that some who believe in the reconciliation of all things make an argument from the notion that God doesnt have a justifiable reason for hell. I suppose there could be many reasons it could be justified but is it biblical? It would hardly be my first go to when debating the idea.
Would this bring all glory to God?
But does God want them? Whos will would prevail? (this is supposing that free will is even true)
But would GOD stop loving them and give up is a better question in my opinion? (also assuming free will is true)
Again I dont think this is the go to argument for most who believe in the reconciliation of all things. However the word of God does say He will reconcile all of His creation and God cannot lie, which I suppose would be some kind of “obligation” to keep His word especially if His nature is unchanging.
Then God only fuels flames to the fire of the never ending rebellion by creating such a place?
I dont think anyone here thinks that anyone will enter the new heavens and the new earth unrighteously. Many advocate that post-mortem chastisement will produce righteousness before entrance.
Im not sure how torment would be protection from harm? Especially if “The longer one is in hell the more wicked they become”
Then why would His judgement and punishment be outside of this love and how is He protecting these hellbound sinners from eternal torment?
So God is serving man?
I think thatd be the last of their concerns if they are already in torment forever. Whats another knife in the gut from another hell enslaved sinner when you are in literal flames all day,everday…forever…
I dont see why anything posted before this part IS the “just reason” for hell. It seems like circular reasoning so far. I mean its one thing to say they are wicked and thus is justification for hell but I hardly see anything so far that is justification in itself.
I agree God is infinite in wisdom, as well as infinite in power. So if God is infinite in wisdom and power, and He wants all men to be saved, how come He didnt figure out a way to have them all saved and learn righteousness and truth instead of using His infinite wisdom to come up with infinite excuses as to why He could not save all?
So do I, I just see a different outcome
tl:dr most who believe in the reconciliation of all things do so based on study of scripture, not by philosophical inquiry.Although very good theosophical arguments can and has been made in the defense for the reconciliation of all things. Christ triumphant being one of the best theosophical argumentation in defense of the reconciliation of all things in my opinion. None of what is posted is irrefutable evidence or reason as to why hell and eternal torment must exist.
I could use scripture to back some of these points but Im ok with theosophical debates as well.
Because He wants to repay evil for evil…oh wait…