The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Musings on Sola Scriptura and walking in the Spirit

Evangelical Universalism
#1

Brothers and sisters, I have had these musings lately while reading the scriptures and studying the history of the church. I’m not sure why I am posting them here. I guess I feel it would be better to discuss them in a community rather than holding onto them within myself.

Sometimes I think that the scriptures are like the parables, or are supposed to be confusing and seemingly contradictory, so that we must learn to rely on the Holy Spirit rather than our own mind and traditions in learning to interpret them? Does this challenge the sola scriptura of the Reformation?

Are the seemingly contradictory writings in the scripture meant to teach us humility rather than pride?

Should evangelical universalists rely primarily on hope, love, and faith and leave doctrine to the proud doctors of the Pharisees?

Shouldn’t evangelical universalists look to the fruit of doctrine rather than to it’s systematic interpretation? What has doctrinal disputes given us except wars and division? How can we fully love others when we are judging them?

Does not one walk in the spirit when leaving oneself open to God rather than thinking thinking thinking and never stopping to listen?

Doesn’t judgment of others come into us when we decide on a human standard or doctrine and apply it to others?

Is a systematic theology of the Bible an idol that we create in order to feel righteous and to feel in control?

How God Became King
#2

Yes.

Knowledge puffs up.

The spirit blows where it wishes.

I don’t believe that there is anything wrong with digging, for it is the Glory of God to conceal a matter, and the glory of a king to search it out. But God chose what the world thinks foolish to shame the wise, and God chose what the world thinks weak to shame the strong.

One more :wink: The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. He who has an ear to hear what the spirit is saying

#3

I agree as well. (And, by the way, welcome to the forum, Seeker!)

In addition to what RedHot said, I think the parables of Christ are a good example of this. Without His explanations, we could put all sorts of meaning into and on them. We only understand what he meant because of His teaching, and in the same way the Spirit of God in us who teaches us what is meant by anything. And we need to be good students and study well. We could have the whole bible memorised and still miss the meaning. Jesus makes it clear that those who do the will of God will have understanding, so in my mind, the proper focus of our “study” is to seek out the will of God to do it. That’s the beginning.

I’m not sure I disagree with “sola scriptura” – I guess that would depend on what a person means by it. I’ve been in churches where “sola scriptura” discounted the work of the Spirit in people’s lives, but I think it’s possible to hold to it and still give the Spirit place.

Sonia

#4

I agree too.

The problem I’ve run into is almost no one in a typical evangelical church will agree - especially the clergy. Almost every church has it’s “what we believe” thing and the members hired the clergy accordingly.

Try bringing up the topic of this thread or heaven forbid EU in a typical evangelical church and you’ll run into a buzz saw.

#5

Just a quibble over words here … “doctrine” is simply “teaching.” The teachings of Christ and the apostles are very important, so no, I don’t think that should be left to the pharisees. And I’d venture to say that doctrinal disputes would not lead to wars and division if people were truly following Christ even in the midst of them.

Christ’s last instructions to his followers on earth included: “…teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”

That’s pretty important. It’s not “systematic theology” that we’re supposed to be teaching. Rather, it is observance (τηρέω: give heed to, watch narrowly, observe) of the commands of Christ.

So if Christ taught that we are to love our enemies and pray for them, forgive, be one with one another, give to others, be the servant of all, do good to our neighbor, etc … if people are carefully observing these clear teachings, how could mere disagreements over other aspects of theology lead to strife and wars?

Sonia

#6

So I’m going to step out a little here, God is coming into my life in a amazing way, It becomes almoast indescribable. the difference between walking in an intelectual undstanding of God, Sola scriptura and walking with the living God, waling in the spirit, is like walking in darkness verses walking in light. I think this relates to this topic but I may be going on a tangent, but I cannot stop it it just comes out now.

I wrote this on facebook trying to describe what and how God is teaching me:

When you actually walk in faith with God, moment by moment, live with Him giving up all the things you hold as true and take on His truth, put it all on the table surrendered and really seek him, God comes, if you listen, really listen He teaches you, it completly transforms you! you begin to walk IN joy, IN love and you are simply a child of God being as He is. All of the distinctions between Christians fall away as so many shadows in the light. People who follow the ideas and theology of men are in the darkness. All those who walk in the Spirit, following Jesus are the Fathers redeamed adopted children walking with Him in the light, and OH, WHAT LIGHT!

This is trying to describe an experience of walking with God, based in an understanding coming from scripture but going beyond that to a living walking relationship with the real and amazing God who I am getting to know.

I grew up in a church that clamed we could only know God through the Bible. I was taught that the only way that the Holy Spirit would talk to us was through the Bible. It was a very legalistic proud church. It causes division and strife all over the Christian world. But, I would occasionally meet people who were walking in the Spirit in spite of the theology, it was obviouse. They walked in joy and loved all they met. I wanted that but thought it would come through understanding God and knowing the bible and acting on what I knew. I tried to understand God, find methods of following him, always asking what do I need to do to pease God. Through my understanding, my knowledge and my actions. That is Sola Scriptura. That is not how God tells us to know Him!

We know God because we can literally go right to Him and he walks before us, dwells in us and then moves us to be like Him. That is what he came for, that is what Jesus died for, that is what he sent the Holly spirit for. We can live with Him every moment right here on earth now and will live with Him face to face someday right hear on a new earth!

God does reveal Himself through scripture, but God is God, and He uses anything he wants to bring us to where we will listen and follow Him. He is God and in NO way limited by our understandings.

We want to understand God, we want him to be safe and controlable. He is not containable, we do not understand God, we can know a little bit about Him but as Paul says in Romans 11:33-36 he is unfathamable, unsearchable and inscrutible. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. We cannot know God by having knowledge about God He is complely beyond our intelectual abilities.

He wants us to live with him in our lives. He walked in the garden with Adam and Eve, Enoch walked with God and was no more, God guided Abriham, guided and wrestled with Jacob changing Him to Israel, God led the slaves into the desert guiding them, sustaning, protecting and teaching, Moses saw the back of God and gave him the law,God gave them a new land and home, God ruled Israel directly through the judges, David was a man after God’s own heart, Israel walked away from God and He took them into captivity so they would turn to Him, God comes to earth as Jesus to die for us so we could have peace with Him, The Spirit is sent as a helper and creates the church to spread the good news of his redemtinve act and iminent return, after witch we will live with Him in pearfect love and peace. It is about inteactive relationship, he says be still and know I am God, He says draw near and he will come, he says don’t be ancious but pray and I will guard your heart, He offers realationship , love, joy, peace, patience, kindness

This history is all an intreactive loveing relationship, Why would any one settle with a little cold intelectual knowledge when we can live and walk with God in us as the Holy Spirit following the example of God on earth Jesus, then living day by day as an adopted child of the eternal God. I will take His offer, live in relationship with Him, chose to live in the never ending unstapable love of an all mighty graciouse God

#7

Hi Dave, That made wonderful breakfast time devotional reading. Thank you so much for posting: it is great to hear the things God has been showing you and doing in your life. You have experienced a real breakthrough which will be an inspiration to others.

#8

Welcome Hopeful! I have started thinking that way a few times, especially since I’ve become an EU debating people who seem blinded (no offense intended, as they probably think I am too). I do think God primarily works (even in the Bible) in ways that require some faith. I’m not entirely sure why, but I know it must be the best way - I suspect being “wrapped in cotton wool” & “spoon fed” only has limited value in maturing people in the way God wants…

#9

Dave
I really appreciate your post.
I can add nothing to it. All I can do is endorse it and thank you for it.
God bless

#10

Dave,

Now I know why I posted my original post: so that we could receive your wisdom through your wonderful reply.

Wonderful! You confirm with actual experience what I have begun to suspect.

#11

This is definitely how I feel a lot of the time, especially when discussing extended meaning of various teachings of Jesus. Something like Luke 14:26, or Matthew 5:28. You can look at these and take them as they appear to be written, and, in my opinion, will completely miss the point (hence the notion that single people can commit adultery). And I found it extremely difficult to explain to others what I would call “big picture” interpretations. To me these passages make perfect sense and are very fundamental. To others, they are barbaric notions of thought control and hating your parents. To others yet, they are rules to live by, parts of a grand checklist.