The Evangelical Universalist Forum

My Top Six Scriptures That Show Jesus Will Save All People

Theology Biblical Theology
#116

I mean no disrespect but, ive adressed the “free will” verses many time and so do my sources that arent read. So im not gonna read a wall of text when the favor is obviously not being reciprocated by hearing me out, reading what I write, or the sources I post. I keep repeating the same answers that arent being heard. So i dont know how responding, in the same manner I have consistently replied, will make any difference by repeating it again in response to the theologians remarks.

Also Im not big on theologians. I can care less about what they wanna say or how they interpret scripture to fit their theosophical bias. Theology is wrought with the traditions of men trying to make scripture fit what they want to believe.Some going as far as to mistranslate scripture to support their theology. Thats indeed where the theology of eternal hell even came from. When there is clear statements provided in scripture that contradict theologians advocating “free will” Ill stick to scripture as opposed to what men believe or say.

For the third time, though I doubt itll be read, these verses show how SEVERELY LIMITED our “free will” is in spiritual matters.

It doesnt commentate on it. It lets scripture alone speak for itself.

I dont care if I can supposedly choose cinnamon toast crunch or cheerios. I wanna know how will applies to spiritual matters based off scripture alone. And from scripture, when taken at face value without injecting our own theologies into it, show that we have no “free” will in spiritual matters but are subject to the will of God.

#117

Your “freedom”, apart from divine intervention, is to continue falling,being enslaved and dying to sin.

Thats why faith, grace, salvation, and the reconciliation of all things IS OF GOD ALONE and a kind miracle given to mankind.

#118

“Free” will exalts humans over Gods will. Essentially making them out to be their own gods. Which was the second lie told to eve. “You shall not surely die but become Gods”

#119

Does God subject creation to vanity? Does He harden hearts? Does He blind people? Does He consign people to disobedience? Does He make the clay? Does He counsel all things according to His will?

Yes or no?

If yes then GOD is in control not us.

If no then I really dont see the point of continuing the conversation when Ive provided scripture clearly stating that He does.

#120

Ive given scripture and logic to show you how limited, if any , our will is apart from God.

I cant validate my point with anything but scripture and logic. If that isnt sufficient then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

#121

ATR, if you’re looking for responses to many of your comments, they were already addressed in two very long discussions on freewill vs determinism not long ago:

There’s also many hundreds of online discussions, websites & books re the same debate.

#122

Ill look into them. But what is bugging me a bit is that, while Im being responded to, Ive hardly had any response in refutation to the verses Ive posted. As well as, yesterday, feeling a little belittled by some even though I admit that may not have been their intentions.

I keep getting asked questions Im supposed to respond to, and have many times, yet this hasnt been reciprocated back to me by answering my very simple questions.

I mean to me this question is very simply answered and yet, though people are responding they wont answer it;

"Does God subject creation to vanity? Does He harden hearts? Does He blind people? Does He consign people to disobedience? Does He make the clay? Does He counsel all things according to His will?

Yes or no?"

#123

Does God have free will?

Well… God created man in His own image (Genesis 1:27).

If God has free will, wouldn’t it follow, then, that man also has free will?

#124

Non-sequitor fallacy. Thats like saying because God is sinless then we are sinless.

#125

Yes. Yet none of that necessarily rules out libertarian free will.

#127

If we are consigned to disobedience I dont see how that would fit beside we have free will to be obedient without God producing obedience and righteousness within us through His actions.

How can something be free while also being subjected to something that limits it?

But I thank you for at least answering. Genuinely.

#128

p.s. If He blinds someone I dont see how they can will themselves to see.

If He hardens ones heart I dont see how they can will themselves a heart of flesh.

#129

Subjecting a bird to clipped wings then telling it that it has the freedom to fly seems an illogical contradiction to me.

#130

Do you refer to Rom.11:32?

Have you read any pro free will commentaries on the subject?

#131

Ive also asked, in light of o.t. and n.t. verses speaking of the potter and the clay, can clay do ANYTHING except sit on the table apart from the potters hand?

#132

No, it’s not like that at all. For man WAS sinless in the beginning, just as he had free will in the beginning. Man BECAME sinful because he CHOSE to disobey God. That happened AFTER he was created, through his own choice, and so the sinful nature was passed on to his descendants.

#133

I wish ATR would stop dodging the answers about verses that seem to teach determinism are RELATIVE TO Israel’s redemption.

#134

It is a non-sequitor fallacy. Saying “because God has free will then we have free will” is just as much the same as saying “Becuase God can create the universe so can we” or “because God is omnipotent so are we”

If God sent Christ as a response, instead of destining the fall so that Christ could be glorified, then Christ was plan B and plan A was hoping man would be obedient.

#135

Clay can’t do anything, but we can do things apart from our Creator. If we couldn’t then none of us would sin, doing wrong, hurtful things to others. Or do you think it’s God’s will that some people torture or kill other people.

#136

First of all that was never proposed to me in the form of a question anywhere. Secondly I have tried my best to answer all questions from my understanding where as mine were completely ignored or side-skirted.