Objections to Univeralism

[SeekingTheTruth]

[tag]Holy-Fool-P-Zombie[/tag]

Which raises another interesting question. Are these "visions of Hell’, Hades, etc. - literal or metaphorical

Well it depends on the vision, what makes me wonder is how some people point to a particular near death experience and talk about how someone went to hell and got saved from hell and say that is proof one can get saved from hell, HOWEVER, the same experience will mention seeing other people in helpless punishment calling on God with no answer.

And this is my favorite sentence:

So, one can easily see how Annihilationism combined with God trying to save all as a more realistic and harmonious belief. As it honors God’s character and also harmonizes with all texts.

Well one can make the argument there that God trying to save everyone is done in this life and Annihilation in the next, I know the author of that article believes in post-mortem salvation, however this quote can be used to rule it out.
Universalism often appears to God’s success, in which case, God is either successful or He isn’t.

[tag]Geoffrey[/tag]

The one thing visions have in common is that they all contradict each other. (To be precise, there is no vision not contradicted by other visions.)

True, but there could be a few out there that harmonize.
The belief that ‘hell’ is a state of mind could be compatible with a seemingly contradicting visions, as the person having said experience may be experiencing a different thing in their mind.

This sort of puerile nonsense is obviously false even on its surface. Its like entering 7 x 18 into a calculator and getting 16,895,342. You know that either you mis-keyed or that the calculator is faulty. Similarly, when Jesus Christ supposedly says that it’s “Good News” that over 99.99% of people will go to Hell, and that fewer than 1 in 10,000 will go to Heaven, you know that someone has misinterpreted or that their data is faulty. With numbers like that, it is a virtual certainty that you, your wife, your children, your parents, all your family, all your friends, all your loved ones, and even all of the people you were casually acquainted with will all spend eternity in Hell. Good news! And any donkey who thinks he’s in the 0.01% of the holiest people on earth is suffering from a grave delusion.

This whole thing about the gospel being ‘Good news’ is something I struggle with a lot.
The Lord Jesus Christ set a very strict standard in a sense:

MATTHEW 19:16-30:
-16: And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
-17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
-18: He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
-19: Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
-20: The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
-21: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
-22: But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
-23: Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
-24: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
-25: When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
-26: But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
-27: Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
-28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
-29: And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
-30: But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

One may argue that it was because the Rich Young Ruler loved his money and not God, HOWEVER, we read later in Matthew 19:30 that those who “hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.”, I struggle to see how this is compatible with salvation being a free gift:

ROMANS 5:18:
-18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Then there is also Luke 12:31-34:

LUKE 12:31-34:
-31: But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
-32: Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
-33: Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
-34: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

…andLuke 14:26:

LUKE 14:26:
-26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

The point is that very few people are capable of keeping these commandments, I myself can’t, and although I pray that I can, I currently do not see myself being able, I have to wait on God to change me - please pray that He does. And if the criteria for salvation is to keep these difficult commandments, I struggle to see how the Gospel can be described like this:

LUKE 2:10-11:
-10: And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
-11: For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Even The Lord Jesus Christ said himself:

LUKE 13:23-30:
-23: Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
-24: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
-25: When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
-26: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
-27: But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
-28: There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
-29: And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
-30: And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

And since I’m on it, the phrase “there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last” disproves ultra-universalism, if ultra-universalism were true, everyone would be first and no one would be last.

[tag]qaz[/tag]

The Lord Jesus Christ said “Think not that I am come to destroy the law”, and we know in the Bible that God never changes

Right, but what does that mean to you? For example, I’ve heard Jews use that quote to argue that Jesus himself taught that the entire torah (all 600+ commandments) would always be in effect and that Peter and Paul thus contradicted Jesus. Obviously that is not an interpretation most Christians take. You seem to be appealing to that verse to say every verse of scripture must be accorded equal status in the formation of doctrines. I don’t think such an interpretation is tenable.

Like I said, the moral law, the 10 commandments, love God and love neighbor:

LOVE GOD:
-Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
-Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
-Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
-Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

LOVE NEIGHBOR:
-Honour thy father and thy mother.
-Thou shalt not kill.
-Thou shalt not commit adultery.
-Thou shalt not steal.

• Thou shalt not bear false witness.
• Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s x, y, and z.

It’s worth mentioning that the Rick Young Ruler only mentioned the ‘Love Neighbor’ commandments when talking to The Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus said “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” when the Rick Young Ruler asked “what lack I yet?” so I fear that in order to love God, I must sell everything I have and give to the poor, and this is something I am unable to do as I lack the faith to do so, I need God to change me - once again, I ask that people do.

I believe Heaven and earth passing by is current Heaven and current earth being destroyed and replaced with New Heaven and New Earth:

So an end to the space-time continuum? An end to the physical universe? Personally, I think ‘heaven and earth passing by’ is an idiom to describe a change in power dynamics, which happened within the lifetime of Jesus’ contemporaries.

Well we know for a fact that this current Earth will eventually end (and if Hillary Clinton wins the election, sooner rather than later), it’s talking about that.

Would be nice, but we still have Proverbs 1:25-33 to deal with:

“Wisdom” is personified as a woman. The writer here is teaching a practical lesson of what happens to the unwise, using highly poetic language. Proverbs is a highly poetic book.

It’s not so much “I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;” that bothers me but rather “Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:” that bothers me since one of the Universalists main arguments is the fact that God’s mercy endures forever:

PSALM 136:1
-1: O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I don’t believe it’s referring to individual election, Calvinism is one of the worst doctrines out there, I was citing Romans 9:22-33 to talk about how God is willing to show is wrath.

IMO Romans 9 should never be read without continuing on to chapter 11

Very true

Interesting verses, I will present an interpretation that I hope is not true:

As we know, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess:

PHILIPPIANS 2:10-11:
-10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
-11: And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Some people interpret this ‘bowing’ as being hit in the knees with the divine 2x4, however, one interpretation I have heard appears as though the bowing and confession as voluntary (after being in torment for at least 1000 years), but that will not make them saved at this point, this interpretation shows this happening at the second resurrection, the resurrection of damnation, which is talked about later in John 5:

JOHN 5:29:
-29: And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So it is possible for people to honor the Son, bow and confess, and yet not be saved.

Are you sure of that?

1 Corinthians 12
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

If the purpose of God’s judgment is to bring rebels to honor God, then a judgment of annihilation would fail.

Well one could confess and honor the Lord Jesus Christ and still not be saved as it’s too late:

2 CORINTHIANS 6:2:
-2: (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

It doesn’t make much sense with Eternal Conscious Torment however (ECT) however, because it leaves room for people to ask for mercy, not receive it, and then blaspheme God, as some of these so called ‘visions of hell’ talk about.

I don’t put any stock in people’s ‘trip to hell’ stories. I rely on the Bible and my reasoning ability to understand the supernatural, not unverifiable stories. People have claimed they’ve been abducted by aliens. People have claimed they’ve seen Bigfoot. People have claimed they’ve seen Elvis. Do you believe every story everyone tells? Why or why not?

Eventually, I think, you have to get down to metaphysics.

Point taken, but what do we do about this:
youtube.com/watch?v=iHAJojGIqi4

And there was another case where a scuba diver heard screaming coming from below the seabed.

You are probably thinking ‘you don’t actually believe these don’t you?’, well when exploring a theology that completely changes who God is, you need to take into account every single pillar supporting the theology you are trying to move away from.

I don’t know if there are any flat-earthers on this forum, but (like I mentioned on a post yesterday) I thought I would share this:

GENESIS 26:4:
-4: And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

ROUND EARTH THEORY: Innumerable stars (universal salvation), hot place in the centre of the earth (no universal salvation)
FLAT EARTH THEORY: Limited stars (no universal salvation), no hot place in the centre of the earth (not necessarily universal salvation or annihilationism).

Not sure if anyone would expect flat earth vs round earth discussions on a topic about Universalism.

Sorry for repeating this, but I would like to see a response, and that is probably unlikely since the original mention of this topic is on the previous page.

The Book of Revelation talks about the Mark of the Beast, something that has never happened before, the technology for it didn’t exist back then, but it does now, and that is why we are moving towards a cashless society:

REVELATION 13:16-17:
-16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
-17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

I think you’re taking Revelation way too literally.

How would you interpret these passages then?

[tag]davo[/tag]

“cashless society”… I always laugh at that one as history has been replete with people trading or bargaining in produce and wares apart from “cash”. Nothing new under the sun.

Okay, let me rephrase then:

Physical Currencyless Society, why do you think we have the rise of paywave and public transport smartcards, even the place where I study at (your location says your from Australia so you would know what a TAFE is) doesn’t allow cash payments for courses.

God Bless
Christ Be With You All

[davo]

“cashless society”… I always laugh at that one as history has been replete with people trading or bargaining in produce and wares apart from “cash”. Nothing new under the sun.

Okay, let me rephrase then:

Physical Currencyless Society, why do you think we have the rise of paywave and public transport smartcards, even the place where I study at (your location says your from Australia so you would know what a TAFE is) doesn’t allow cash payments for courses.

For NO OTHER REASON than that’s the technological age we live in; nothing more and nothing less.

[SeekingTheTruth]

[tag]davo[/tag]

“cashless society”… I always laugh at that one as history has been replete with people trading or bargaining in produce and wares apart from “cash”. Nothing new under the sun.

Okay, let me rephrase then:

Physical Currencyless Society, why do you think we have the rise of paywave and public transport smartcards, even the place where I study at (your location says your from Australia so you would know what a TAFE is) doesn’t allow cash payments for courses.

globalresearch.ca/australia-becomes-first-country-to-begin-microchipping-its-population-rfid-implants-in-the-human-body/5549286 - Check out this article.

[davo]

That’s all well and good BUT it’s got diddly squat to do with biblical prophecy IF that’s what’s on your mind.

I can’t wait till they start putting bar codes on people foreheads… then I’d get a job at a check-out just so I could face-plant slam people’s heads down onto the scanner…

[SeekingTheTruth]

[tag]davo[/tag]

That’s all well and good BUT it’s got diddly squat to do with biblical prophecy IF that’s what’s on your mind.

I can’t wait till they start putting bar codes on people foreheads… then I’d get a job at a check-out just so I could face-plant slam people’s heads down onto the scanner…

Don’t make jokes about it,
what do you think Revelation 13:16-17 means?

So I have been doing some ‘Bible math’ (a name I just made up) so we have:

PHILIPPIANS 2:10-11:
-10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
-11: And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

ROMANS 10:9-10:
-9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
-10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:3:
-3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

=

ANSWER:
-All are saved right?

Well there are a few other scriptures that must be added in to this addition to turn it into an equation (and I sucked at equations back in high school :/), anyway, we need to add in this scripture:

2 CORINTHIANS 6:2:
-2: (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

So some people say that every knee bowing and every tongue confessing means one is saved, however, I have seen one other interpreation besides the traditional ‘bowing because they have been whacked by the divine 2x4’ interpretation:
the bowing and confession as voluntary (after being in torment for at least 1000 years, or just sleep in the grave waiting for the ‘resurrection of damnation’(John 5:29)), but that will not make them saved at this point, this interpretation shows this happening at the second resurrection, the resurrection of damnation,
basically the know The Lord Jesus Christ is Lord, but since it is no longer the day of salvation, they can’t be saved, it’s too late.

Also I will add (actually I typed this part first (minus the Psalms), one of the big themes of universalism, at least on The Wondering Pilgrims YouTube channel (link - youtube.com/channel/UCwfF9tYji7kfImqXjcd2vZw/videos), is The Lord Jesus Christ’s command to love your enemies:

MATTHEW 5:44:
-44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The logical conclusion of that is must God love his enemies also, however, there is a video out there on YouTube explaining how this is not the case:

This Christian is a Calvinist, and Calvinism is a wicked doctrine, and when hyper-Calvinism comes into the question, it removes all purpose to life, HOWEVER, there is an objection here and in order to destroy every pillar holding up Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) / Annihilationism must be destroyed in order to move to a theology that completely changes the way you view God.

There are also a many ‘hate texts’ in the Psalms:

PSALM 5:5:
-5: The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

PSALM 10:3:
-3: For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth. (Abhor is another word for hate)

PSALM 11:5:
-5: The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

What does a Universalist do with these?

Lastly, one of the commonly cited scriptures by Universalists is 1 Corinthians 3:10-15:

1 CORINTHIANS 3:10-15:
-10: According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
-11: For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
-12: Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
-13: Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
-14: If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
-15: If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is tied to God being a refiners fire in Malachi 3:2-3:

MALACHI 3:2-3:
-2: But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
-3: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

HOWEVER, there is also Zechariah 13:8-9 which talks about 2 parts being cut off and dying AND THEN a refinement:

ZECHARIAH 13:8-9:
-8: And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
-9: And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

What does a universalist do with this?

God Bless
Christ Be With You All

[JasonPratt]

It seems an added complication to suppose that there is some sort of post-mortem process. You’d have to explain to your fellow Southern Baptist believers:

1. No one goes to Hell, unless you wanted to use the term “Hell” in a very different way than most Southern Baptists use it. Instead of being never-ending torment, “Hell” would be a limited process ending in Heaven.

Yep. One step: instead of one kind of post-mortem inconvenience for impenitent sinners, there’s another related kind of post-mortem inconvenience for some sinners. There’s no more step inherently involved than for switching to annihilationism.

2. Not all of the “saved” (or perhaps not any?) go immediately to Heaven upon death. Instead, they too go through a process that ends in Heaven. Perhaps one could say that the process is not as long and/or as unpleasant for the saved?

No step: all penitents cooperating with God still don’t have to go through the disciplinary process (however long or short or intense or soft that may be). The question of whether that includes some non-Christians, or whether some nominal Christians (up to and including apostles) count among the impenitents, is a different topic: a non-universalist (like Lewis) could hold both other ideas; a purgatorial universalist doesn’t necessarily have to hold either.

The extra steps to holding those extra details, in other words, are not extra steps for purga-u per se.

3. Not a few of your fellow Southern Baptist believers would undoubtedly say, “Sounds like Purgatory. You turning Catholic?” Then you’d have to explain the distinctions between your beliefs and Purgatory.

True, but not a step from ECT to purga-u. Basically my answer would be, and is (in effect) when I’m asked: “I’m not stepping there, I’m stepping here.” Explaining that I didn’t step over there when stepping here, is entirely different from actually stepping over there before stepping here.

In short, I think it would be a LOT easier to explain to a Southern Baptist the belief that everybody who dies immediately goes to Heaven. I think they would grasp the concept in less than a minute. On the other hand, I think it would take several minutes to get a Southern Baptist to grasp the belief of universalism coupled with a post-mortem process.

The Baptists I’ve talked to have had problems, and would need multiple steps to accept any kind of universalism per se, but not multiple steps to arrive at one kind of hell instead of another kind of hell. I didn’t have any extra steps on that: one kind of lake of fire, another kind of lake of fire. Only one step needed – on that topic. Other topics necessarily involve other steps.

For example, there could be any number of steps before someone steps from believing any kind of post-mortem inconvenience is true to believing there is no post-mortem inconveniences or unpleasantnesses for anyone ever at all. But that step itself is only one step. It would be inaccurate of me to treat that step itself as multiple steps. Naturally if someone passed through that first to purga-u, that would be two steps, but the step from no p-m inconvenience to a remedial p-m inconvenience would be itself only one step, just like a step from some kind of hopelessly final p-m inconvenience to any kind of remedial p-m inconvenience would be one step. If someone went beyond ultra-u to, for example, Eastern Orthodoxy, that would probably involve a number of other steps, adjusting for details, but it would be inaccurate of me to treat those further steps as extra steps from ECT to ultra-u.

[anon47460357]

Thanks, Jason. I see what you’re saying now. Sometimes I’m a bit slow.

[davo]

That’s all well and good BUT it’s got diddly squat to do with biblical prophecy IF that’s what’s on your mind.

I can’t wait till they start putting bar codes on people foreheads… then I’d get a job at a check-out just so I could face-plant slam people’s heads down onto the scanner…

Don’t make jokes about it,
what do you think Revelation 13:16-17 means?

There is soooo much engrained religiosity within evangelicalism where too many have been trained in fear to where they’ve lost touch with reality and can no longer simply smile for fear of reflecting any degree of humour, or dare I say “FUN”… it’s like they’ve been baptised in lemon juice.

As to Rev 13:16-17… it is NOT talking about us, nor our time, but theirs and then. Consider this from David Chilton:

The Book of Acts is studded with incidents of organized Jewish persecution of the Church (Acts 4:1-3, 15-18; 5:17-18, 27-33, 40; 6:8-15; 7:51-60; 9:23, 29; 13:45-50; 14:2-5; 17:5-8, 13; 18:17; 20:3; 22:22-23; 23:12, 20-21; 24:27; 26:21; 28:17-29; cf. 1 Thess. 2:14-16). All of this ultimately served the interests of Caesar against Christ and the Church; and the “mark of the Beast,” of course, is the Satanic parody of the “seal of God” on the foreheads and hands of the righteous (3:12; 7:2-4; 14:1), the mark of wholehearted obedience to the Law in thought and deed (Deut. 6:6-8), the mark of blessing and protection (Ezek. 9:4-6), the sign that one is HOLY TO THE LORD (cf. Ex. 28:36). Israel has rejected Christ, and is “marked” with the seal of Rome’s total lordship; she has given her allegiance to Caesar, and is obedient to his rule and law. Israel chose to be saved by the pagan state, and persecuted those who sought salvation in Christ.

The seal in the Biblical world signified a grant of authority and power, a guarantee of protection, and a mark of ownership (cf. 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 2 Tim. 2:19). The primary Old Testament background for St. John’s imagery is Ezekiel 9:1-7, which shows God commissioning executioners to destroy everyone in the city of Jerusalem; the first to be slain are the elders at the Temple. First, however, He commands another angel to “go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are being committed in its midst” (v. 4). The godly are marked for protection, in order that the apostates in Jerusalem may be destroyed.
The mark on the forehead is thus a symbol of man restored to fellowship with God. One striking example of this was the High Priest, whose forehead was marked with gold letters proclaiming that he was HOLY TO THE LORD (Ex. 28:36). Further, in Deuteronomy 6:6-8, all God’s people are sealed in the forehead and the hand with the law of God, just as they are characterized in life by faithful obedience in thought and action to every word of God.
The protective “mark” in Ezekiel 9 is literally tav, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The ancient Hebrew form of the tav was +, a cross – a fact that was not lost on the early Church, which saw it as “a quasi-prophetic reference to the sign of the cross as used by Christians, and it is possible that the use of that sign in baptism may have originated in this passage.”

David Chilton: The Days of Vengeance p. 342, 205

This last letter of the Hebrew alphabet tav (or taw, depending on who you’re reading) as indicated above was indeed a “+”, a cross; but also shaped like an “X” in the most ancient Hebrew scripts. Again, something probably not lost on the early church, where in Greek the “X” is the first letter of <Χριστός> “Christos”.

That Israel had indeed sold out to Rome is plainly stated here…

Jn 19:15 But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”

Acts 17:7 Jason has harbored them, and these are all acting contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying there is another king—Jesus.”

[anon12438761]

<psst…davo…a bit off topic…what’s your assessment of Chilton’s book that you mentioned? >

[davo]

<psst…davo…a bit off topic…what’s your assessment of Chilton’s book that you mentioned? >

I’d say excellent. Technically when he wrote this work he was a partial prêterist i.e., he still expected a future to us ‘return of Christ’… he subsequently embraced full prêterism (he is since deceased). I like the book because it’s a good and thorough introduction into a prêteristic way of understanding biblical prophecy… and given that most folk who enquire into it usually hold to some degree of partial prêterist belief without probably realising it.

[Cindy_Skillman]

STT,

Yes, you are misunderstanding me. Let me quote from “The Shack” (loosely). The protagonist says to the Jesus character: “Does that mean that all roads lead to You?” and the Jesus character responds, “No. Most roads lead nowhere at all, but regardless of that, I will find you down whatever road you may have lost yourself.”

That doesn’t say exactly what I was thinking, but it does eloquently describe my position on the “all roads” fallacy.

As I said earlier, scripture clearly describes God revealing Himself to those who have not had the advantage of Abrahamic teachings. That said, the revelation must and will lead them ultimately to the Father through the Son, Jesus Christ. I would liken it to gently leading a horse toward the water by blocking some paths and making other paths more attractive. The horse doesn’t know what you’re doing and no, you’re not giving the horse ultimate truth (ie: ‘the water is that way’) because the horse isn’t able to understand ultimate truth. Nevertheless, you are revealing something to the horse–to whit–you are encouraging it to take perhaps the left path rather than the right. The goal is to get the horse to the water (Jesus). It’s likely that the horse will not take the shortest route nor the traditional route; you can still get it to the water though, if you’re patient and wise.

God reveals Himself to all. As John said, " . . . that was the true light, that lights every man that comes into the world . . ." It’s somewhat important to know that scholars believe we ought to have used a sentence structure more like " . . . that was the true light coming into the world, that lights every man . . ." The second makes it clear that it was the Light coming into the world, lighting every human. EVERY human. If Jesus lights you, btw, you are LIT. You don’t get to stay unlit–not because you’ve lost your free will, but just because, well, there’s the Light. It doesn’t take away your freedom just because you can’t avoid seeing the SON, and seeing everything else BY the SON. (I’m comparing the Son with the sun here, and it is, I think, a very apt comparison. Jesus is the light; without Him, we walk in darkness. When the sun rises, anyone with eyesight will become MORE, not LESS free, and WILL see by the light of the sun. It can’t be helped. Likewise when the Son comes into the world and lights all humans, all humans will see BY the light of the Son. He lights EVERY man.

So yes, I stand by my statement. God reveals Himself to everyone sooner or later. Some people get the first glimmers of their understanding without ever hearing the name of Jesus. That light comes FROM Jesus, just as the light they see when they see Him directly also comes from Jesus.

I hope that makes it more and not less clear. Some of the things I want to say are very difficult to express–at least they are for me.

[SeekingTheTruth]

[tag]qaz[/tag]

Like I said, the moral law, the 10 commandments, love God and love neighbor:

Okay, so your interpretation of Jesus’ statements about the law in Matthew 5 is: the 10 commandments will always be in effect. If that’s the case, then your original argument – that every verse of scripture must be accorded equal status in the formation of doctrines – an argument you implicitly made by quoting Matthew 5 – doesn’t stand.

What do you think The Lord Jesus Christ meant when he said:

MATTHEW 5:17-20:
-17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
-18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
-19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
-20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It’s worth mentioning that the Rick Young Ruler only mentioned the ‘Love Neighbor’ commandments when talking to The Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus said “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” when the Rick Young Ruler asked “what lack I yet?” so I fear that in order to love God, I must sell everything I have and give to the poor, and this is something I am unable to do as I lack the faith to do so, I need God to change me - once again, I ask that people do.

I think if you were really concerned that you will be hopelessly punished unless you give all your possessions to the poor, you would have done it by now. You wouldn’t be spending your time using superfluous technology to post on the internet.

That’s a little harsh, people come on the internet all the time doubting their salvation.
Well fear fully prevents me from embracing Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) / Annihilation for that reason.

Well we know for a fact that this current Earth will eventually end (and if Hillary Clinton wins the election, sooner rather than later), it’s talking about that.

How do you know that and what does that mean? Again, an end to the time-space continuum? An end to the universe’s physical laws? What?

The Bible makes it clear that there will be a New Earth and a New Heaven:

REVELATION 21:1:
-1: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Surely you don’t believe this current Earth will remain literally forever and sin will never be fully destroyed?

don’t believe it’s referring to individual election, Calvinism is one of the worst doctrines out there, I was citing Romans 9:22-33 to talk about how God is willing to show is wrath.

Of course God is willing to show wrath. Who has denied that? Wrath is not His essence though. That’s the point.

Holiness is still God’s essence though, and God’s Holiness is talked about more than God’s love:

LEVITICUS 20:26:
-26: And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

1 PETER 1:16:
-16: Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And there are verses in Psalms that clearly say God hates people:

PSALM 5:5:
-5: The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

PSALM 10:3:
-3: For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth. (Abhor is another word for hate)

PSALM 11:5:
-5: The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Well one could confess and honor the Lord Jesus Christ and still not be saved as it’s too late:

2 CORINTHIANS 6:2:
-2: (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

:? The verse you’re quoting does not prove that a creature could confess Jesus as Lord and yet not be saved because it’s “too late”.

Well what does it mean then. Remember:

HEBREWS 9:27:
-27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

REVELATION 13:16-17:
-16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
-17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

How would you interpret these passages then?Nero coins? I’m not sure.

Honestly, Preterism sounds like an excuse to ignore certain scriptures.

REVELATION 1:7:
-7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Has this happened yet?

[tag]Cindy Skillman[/tag]
So could what you are saying be compared to these testimonies of Muslims having visions of Jesus?

If so, sorry for misreading your earlier comment, it’s fear stemming from the overwhelming number of Universalists denying The Trinity and free will as I fear all Universalits are believing some serious errors, whether it be Unitarianism, Calvinistic Predetermination, Ultra-Universalism (no post-mortem punishement Universalism) or Preterism. Obviously not everyone is going be 100% right on doctrine, but those things I listed above are not just simple doctrnial errors, but are serious issues, in the case of Ultra-Universalism, heretical.

With that being said, after having a vision of The Lord Jesus Christ, the person should abandon all ties to their previous false religion (which is idolatry), so your explanation that someone in a false religion had Jesus revealed to them and that’s why people are finding Universal Salvation in paganism doesn’t hold up there.

God Bless
Christ Be With You

[Eaglesway]

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15** who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel**. Romans 2

I think your post communicares very well Cindy, things that are commended in the conscience of every person by the Holy Spirit, that God is just, and that every person has that imprint in their conscience- whether their knowledge is full or in part, or even in ignorance,

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1

Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christis Lord(Phil 2) because “As in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive- but each in his own order”.

Regardless of the time, or the age, in mortal life, or in the age to come, God has a plan for every person to see Jesus Christ, the radiance of the Fathers glory and the exact representation of His nature"(Heb 1)- and bow before Him. We cannot judge because we do not know the secrets of the heart, but God does…

19Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity. 2 Tim 2

The Lord knows those that are His, He sees the secrets of the heart, and when time is complete, all will have been gathered into one in Christ(Eph 1:9-11) so that God may become “all in all”(1 Cor 15:28)

“For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things to whom be the glry though all the generations of the ages of the ages”(Rom 11:32-36)

As Jesus Himself said, “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me” John 12:32

[St_Michael]

[SeekingTheTruth]

[tag]qaz[/tag]

That’s a little harsh, people come on the internet all the time doubting their salvation.
Well fear fully prevents me from embracing Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) / Annihilation for that reason.

I don’t think the story about the rich young ruler establishes a precept that people are to give everything they have to the poor. Think about it. If everyone was using goods as a ‘hot potato’, passing them along before having the time to consume them, everyone would be poor.

STT, keep reading Luke 18. Right after the story of the rich young ruler, we read:

25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 They who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” 27 But He said, “The things that are impossible with people are possible with God.”

Good point with verses 25-27, but it doesn’t clearly say all will be saved.

And there are verses in Psalms that clearly say God hates people:

The Bible also says God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, but would prefer the wicked repent. If God didn’t love these people, why would he want what’s best for them (repentance leading to communion with Him)?

True

EZEKIEL 18:23:
-23: Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But still, how does a universalist explain the verses in Psalms where it says God hates people?
I have heard someone say they are mistranslated and uses the Greek Septuagint to prove it, but it sounds too convenient to me which goes back the the whole “itching ears” thing, it sounds too convenient to me that all the bad things in Christianity (Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT), Fun is a Sin, God Hates People, etc) are all ministrations are false.

Honestly, Preterism sounds like an excuse to ignore certain scriptures.

Us preterists feel the same way about futurism.

What verses do you think Futurists ignore?

REVELATION 1:7:
-7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Has this happened yet?

Here’s King David David described God saving him from his enemies:

2 Samuel 22
7 “In my distress I called upon the Lord,
Yes, I cried to my God;
And from His temple He heard my voice,
And my cry for help came into His ears.
8 “Then the earth shook and quaked,
The foundations of heaven were trembling
And were shaken, because He was angry.
9 “Smoke went up out of His nostrils,
Fire from His mouth devoured;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 “He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With thick darkness under His feet.
11 “And He rode on a cherub and flew;
And He appeared on the wings of the wind.
12 “And He made darkness canopies around Him,
A mass of waters, thick clouds of the sky.
13 “From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.
14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 “And He sent out arrows, and scattered them,
Lightning, and routed them.
16 “Then the channels of the sea appeared,
The foundations of the world were laid bare
By the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.
17 “He sent from on high, He took me;
He drew me out of many waters.
18 “He delivered me from my strong enemy,
From those who hated me, for they were too strong for me.
19 “They confronted me in the day of my calamity,
But the Lord was my support.
20 “He also brought me forth into a broad place;
He rescued me, because He delighted in me.

Has that happened yet?

I think Jesus used the same style of fantastical language found in the Old Testament to describe the spiritual reality of his parousia.

Did every eye see that?

Read Revelation 1:7 again:

REVELATION 1:7:
-7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

It says “and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.”

God Bless
Christ Be With You

[Paidion]

@Hi

Honestly, Preterism sounds like an excuse to ignore certain scriptures.

REVELATION 1:7:
-7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Has this happened yet?

Well… As a historical premillenialist, and NON-preterist, I wouldn’t go so far as to say Preterists ignore particular scriptures. What they do, in my opinion, is to give them a far-out interpretation, while assessing those who take the scriptures for what they say, as “literalists.” So while I agree with you about Revelation 1:7, the full preterist believes Christ returned in 70 A.D., and that every prophecy was fulfilled then. One would think that the words “every eye shall see him” would be sufficient evidence that Christ’s second coming has not yet occurred. Clearly it is not the case that every eye saw him in 70 A.D. or there would be some historical record of Christ having appeared at that time. But that fact doesn’t faze the full preterist. He simply affirms that the expression “every eye shall see him” is figurative. Indeed they seem to use the figurative tack to deal with every prophecy that has not yet occurred, in order to make it fit the “everything happened in 70 A.D” paradigm.

[size=150]THE FUTURIST’S WARNING[/size]

[size=150]THE PRETERIST’S ASSURANCE[/size]

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

@qaz

STT, please don’t tag me each time you reply to a post of mine in this thread.

.

It goes the same for me. I do follow every thread I supply input to. So I know if someone is responding to my answer or input. Thanks in advance.

I guess I should add a bit to Paidion’s input.

And if you are kept awake, waiting for the end - no problem Read through some Quora Q and A, like:

Why is quantum field theory necessary?

[davo]

Well… As a historical premillenialist, and NON-preterist, I wouldn’t go so far as to say Preterists ignore particular scriptures. What they do, in my opinion, is to give them a far-out interpretation, while assessing those who take the scriptures for what they say, as "literalists.

This IMO is too simplistic a besmirching and mischaracterisation of prêterism… ALL fields of eschatological study interpret the prophetic BOTH literally AND figuratively… the ONLY difference is the particular mix of this and the justification as to why, where and how this happens.

Even you are not averse to using “figurative” language when it suits an argument, as is seen HERE…

Don’t you think the passage from Paul you quoted is figurative language? If Paul had been literally crucified with Christ, he would no longer have existed.

So again it comes down to the balance as to HOW these are used… and as such my estimation is the a prêteristic rationale does less violence to the text and common sense as it takes into account historical narrative, i.e., Yahweh came in Judgement via external military force, as per the Assyrian Tiglath-Pileser III (1Chron 5:25-26), the Chaldean Nebuchadnezzar (1Chron 6:15; Ezra 5:12) and the Roman Titus (Lk 21:20-24), etc.

[SeekingTheTruth]

@qaz

STT, please don’t tag me each time you reply to a post of mine in this thread.

Okay sorry, I was doing it for consistency.

Good point with verses 25-27, but it doesn’t clearly say all will be saved.

I’m not appealing to verses 25-27 as evidence for universalism. I’m appealing to them as evidence that a person doesn’t need to give away all his possessions to be saved.

Oh okay, still don’t know what do with verses 29-30:
-29: And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
-30: But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

MATTHEW 19:29-30:
-29: And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
-30: But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

But still, how does a universalist explain the verses in Psalms where it says God hates people?

Most likely hyperbole. Possibly misinterpretation on the psalmist’s part.

Meditate on Matthew 5:43-48.

Sounds a little too convenient for me, kind of like how if something tastes really good, it’s usually hot healthy.

As for Matthew 5:43-48, one Christian put it this way about God loving his enemies in this YouTube video:
youtube.com/watch?v=1VNJwDjBjAU

This Christian is a Calvinist, and Calvinism is a wicked doctrine, and when hyper-Calvinism comes into the question, it removes all purpose to life, HOWEVER, there is an objection here and in order to destroy every pillar holding up Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) / Annihilationism must be destroyed in order to move to a theology that completely changes the way you view God.

HOWEVER, Robert Morey’s arguments can be refuted with Luke 6:35:

LUKE 6:35:
-35: But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

HOWEVER, I quote from a website called Soulwinning.info (link - soulwinning.info/) “Albeit, God’s longsuffering and patience won’t endure indefinitely.”, well the problem with that quote is that the Bible says the exact opposite for that:

PSALM 136:
-1: O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
-2: O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
-3: O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.
-4: To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.
-5: To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
-6: To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.
-7: To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
-8: The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
-9: The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

HOWEVER, if “everlasting punishment” doesn’t mean everlasting punishment in Matthew 25:46, how can we be sure that “his mercy endureth for eve” means His mercy endures forever in Psalm 136?

What verses do you think Futurists ignore?

Revelation 1
1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2 who gives witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ by reporting what he saw.
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and heed what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.

Revelation 22
7 “Behold, I am coming soon.” Blessed is the one who keeps the prophetic message of this book.

Revelation 22
12 “Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds.

Revelation 22
20 The one who gives this testimony says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

Matthew 16
27 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
28 Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Mark 9
1 He also said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.”

Luke 9
26 Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
27 Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

Too many to list them all.

These verses about events having soon do not prove Preterism, we are living in the last times and things have to happen soon because it’s the last age prior to judgement, the Church Age, the age between The Lord Jesus Christ walking the earth and the end of the Current Heaven and Current Earth.

Did every eye see that?

I don’t take that verse literally. Were the foundations of the earth laid bare in David’s time? Did God literally come down from the sky with thick darkness under His feet and riding a cherub?

How to you interpret “every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him” then?

@Paidion

[size=150]THE FUTURIST’S WARNING[/size]
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/Paidion9/Signs/TheEnd_zps3438ef60.png

[size=150]THE PRETERIST’S ASSURANCE[/size]
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/Paidion9/Signs/Relaxitallhappenedin70ad_zps5e6c87d7.png

This sums up why I see Preterism as an excuse to ignore certain scriptures, but Preterism also ignores end times warning, for example, this world is clearly heading towards a cashless society (or physical currencyless society) which will pave the way for the Mark of the Beast that one can’t buy or sell without:

REVELATION 13:16-17:
-16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
-17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Yet to a Preterist, this verse has NO application today.

@Holy-Fool-P-Zombie

STT, please don’t tag me each time you reply to a post of mine in this thread.

t goes the same for me. I do follow every thread I supply input to. So I know if someone is responding to my answer or input. Thanks in advance.

Your welcome, I was just tagging everyone for consistency though sorry. For those who don’t want to be tagged, just let me know and I will just type @[YOUR NAME] instead of clicking on the ‘Tag’ button.

God Bless
Christ Be With You All

[SeekingTheTruth]

@qaz

Oh okay, still don’t know what do with verses 29-30:
-29: And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
-30: But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

They don’t preclude universal salvation.

One could actually argue that “many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first” is talking about Universal Salvation.

Or a Jew against Christianity. “You mean a person can’t be justified by works of law, but by faith? Sounds too convenient.”

Well:

JAMES 2:14-24:
-14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
-15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
-16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
-17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
-18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
-19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
-20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
-21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
-22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
-23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
-24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It gives me little comfort that the two examples here are feeding the homeless (something I would do if I had the faith that God would provide for me, please pray I can get that faith) and offering up your own son on the altar (something I could never see myself doing if I had a son).
I know this is not taking about salvation BY works, but works BECAUSE of salvation, but still, right now I lack the faith to feed every homeless person I see because I am worried about getting detained by US customs even with the money I have now, and I would be even more worried with less money.

As for Matthew 5:43-48, one Christian put it this way about God loving his enemies in this YouTube video:

I didn’t watch the video. Can you summarize his arguments? (And going forward, please always summarize other people’s arguments if you want me to evaluate them, rather than asking me to watch their videos).

I would have to watch it again when I’m not at school, but what I remember can be summed up with the following?

-Loving your enemies is compared being kind to prisoners of war (by feeding them, etc), please don’t quote me here, I need to watch the video again when I’m home.
-The Lord Jesus Christ didn’t love his enemies when he whipped them and called them vipers, full of dead mans bones, etc

‘Calvinism removes all purpose to life, therefore it must be wrong.’ Sounds a little too convenient.

I will be honest, I am ready to say that if God doesn’t have a plan to save all, there is no purpose to life.

HOWEVER, if “everlasting punishment” doesn’t mean everlasting punishment in Matthew 25:46, how can we be sure that “his mercy endureth for eve” means His mercy endures forever in Psalm 136?

Because it’s consistent with core Christian principles.

This isn’t really much of an answer, is there any way to actually know?

How to you interpret “every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him” then?

The same way I interpret David’s description of God saving him from his enemies: poetically.

Poetically or not, it still has to been something the same as or similar to what it says literally.