The Evangelical Universalist Forum

"olethros"

Theology Biblical Theology
#1

From 2 Thessalonians 1:9,

“9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power…”

Regarding the greek for the word “destruction”, I have found this on Wikipedia as well as in one other place (though can’t remember where at the moment).

Is anyone familiar with this definition, and is there any merit to it?

Thanks!

In Ancient Greek mythology, Olethros was the personification of Havoc and probably one of the Makhai. Olethros translates roughly in ancient Greek to “destruction”, but often with a positive connotation, as in the destruction required for and preceding renewal.

#2

DESTRUCTION = OLETHROS
STRONGS DEFINITION
ruin, destroy, death
a) the destruction of the flesh, said of the external ills and troubles by which the lusts of the flesh are subdued and destroyed

The word ‘OLETHROS’ is properly interpreted as destruction.

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with aionios destruction, that is, they will be shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and marveled among all those who have believed.

The first word punish is “ekdikēsis” which is just concept of reap what is sown. The word second word punish is “dikē” which means to carry out the penalty of judicial decision.

This is true. Those who reign for 1000 years, reign with Christ in His glory. Yet, we know that those who were shut out of the kingdom for those 1000 years through their destruction (death), will be raised up last. The punishment is that 1000-year period in which the dead remain dead. However, in the end, we know they too will be raised in the second resurrection, we also know that the Sea, Hades, and Death must give up the dead within them. Knowing the meaning of AIONIOS, we understand that AIONIOS DESTRUCTION lasts a symbolic 1000 years.

So we read it again:
He will “ekdikēsis” (He will reward in accordance to their deeds) those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be dikē (given the sentence of) aionios destruction [that is] they will be shut out [for a time] from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and marveled among all those who have believed.

#3

No, I’m not familiar with Olethros in Greek mythology. A search turned up many sites that had that same definition, word for word, but I couldn’t find anything I would consider reliable.

Sorry, not much help! :blush: But it is an interesting question, and I’d like to know also.

Sonia

#4

SOTW, thanks for taking the time to explain further, and thank you especially for the comments around the two words defined as punish.

I am familiar with the strong’s definition of olethros, but was wondering if the definition I found had any further significance, especially the part about the word having a positive connotation… “a destruction required for and preceeding renewal.”

Sonia, thanks for trying! Yes, I think my real question is regarding the reliability of this definition.

Other thoughts and insights would be very much appreciated!

Will continue to check this one out on my own as well… :slight_smile:

#5

You’re probably aware, but just in case you’re not, I thought I’d mention that olethros is also used in this verse:

1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

There we see destruction for the purpose of salvation.

Sonia

#6

Was not aware, thank you!

#7

Indeed. Destruction is not a evil punishment, it is a just and merciful one. The destruction is for the cleansing of those who are outside the Kingdom so that they may enter.

Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Without destruction, they would not be able to enter into the Kingdom.

#8

I suppose in reality there is only voluntary or involuntary destruction. The Christian dies daily (or strives too) the non christian is destroyed through the love of God manifesting as wrath.

I like this story told by one of my favourite Christian authors Gerard W. Hughes who is a Jesuit priest and one of the people whose writings show me the love of God in spades. He made 2 walking pilgrimages from the UK - one to Rome and one to Jerusalem (both books - ‘In Search of a Way’ and ‘Walk to Jerusalem’). In one of them he describes 2 people heading for a foreign land - one is receptive to different cultures and loves to meet new customs, people and food; the other dislikes change and loves cosy routine and home cooking. The first will more likely find delight abroad than the second who will probably be miserable. The foreign land they visit is the same but appears to each of them in vastly different ways. So with God I think. :wink:

#9

Thanks Jeff. :slight_smile:

#10

This analogy was given also by one of my favorite minister Charles Stanley (who I secretly think is a universalist).

Charles also said, “Where is this place represented by the “outer darkness” in Jesus’ parables? To be in “outer darkness” is to be in the kingdom of God but outside the circle of men and women whose faithfulness on this earth earned them a special rank or position of authority. (Handbook for Christian Living (1996), page 126)”

#11

Um, Craig.
Did you mean that you secretly think Charles Stanley is a universalist, or that you think Charles Stanley is secretly a universalist? :wink:

Just reminded me of a line from The Thin Blue Line (British Comedy) “The rules of grammar are there so that proper sentences can be formed, and more importantly, generally understood…” :sunglasses:

#12

Dang! I revealed my secret! Well I guess I can say it boldly, I believe Charles Stanley is secret universalist.

#13

:mrgreen:

#14

Charles Stanley is no Universalist. :wink:

#15

So then you agree with his assessment of outer darkness?

“Where is this place represented by the “outer darkness” in Jesus’ parables? To be in “outer darkness” is to be in the kingdom of God but outside the circle of men and women whose faithfulness on this earth earned them a special rank or position of authority. (Handbook for Christian Living (1996), page 126)”

Maybe you should do your homework :smiley:

#16

The Wikipedia quote is here & on many other sites:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olethros

It is the same greek word used in 2 Thess.1:9.

A lexicon re the usage of the Greek word olethros says on the following page:

“…Hierocles 14, 451b has the thought that the soul of the sinner in Hades is purified by the tortures of hell, and is saved thereby…”

translate.academic.ru/%E1%BD%84 … %82/el/xx/

As does p.702 of “A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)”:

logos.com/product/3878/a-gr … ure-3rd-ed
amazon.ca/Greek-English-Lex … 0226039331

For a more Biblical, rather than strictly Greek mythological, consideration of the word, this article is a study of how olethros is used in classical Greek, the LXX, the New Testament, the Latin Vulgate, the Gothic bible , Tyndales & modern translations, etc:

thedifferentiator.net/olethros.html