The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Osama Bin Ladin -- now gone?

Evangelical Universalism
#1

This of course is where the rubber meets the road.

I wish he had repented and come to do better before he was slain (assuming that the White House wouldn’t be releasing verification notices about this unless they themselves were highly convinced the man had died last week–it would be extremely embarassing after all if he released a new video tomorrow. :wink: ) It would have made so much of a difference in other people’s lives as well as his own.

But enemy though he was to us, God gave His own life for bin Ladin’s sake, as much as for any of us. If we are right, we may still hope in Christ for his repentance and reconciliation to God–and someday for his reconciliation with the people he has sinned against, too.

May love be fulfilled in justice for and with our enemy, even for him–in the Day of the Lord to come if not before.

(And thanks be to all those who cooperated together, risking their own lives, to help bring an end in this age to his impenitent deeds: sending him on to be called at last before the throne of Justice!)

#2

I, for one, am greatly looking forward to becoming friends with Osama in heaven. :open_mouth:

What I mean by that is, I trust and hope in God enough to believe that God has wonderful plans, in the next life, to lift the veil from Bin Laden’s eyes and, somehow, someway, grant him repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, that he may come to his senses and escape from hell, cease doing the will of the evil one, and begin doing God’s will. (paraphrase of 2 Tim 2:25-26)

God WILL get the glory he deserves from Bin Laden–if not in this life, then in the life to come. Jesus died for him just as much as for me. I did nothing to merit salvation any more than he did. When he repents, he’ll experience it the same as I did. What a testimony to the love and justice of God! It means nothing for Jesus to work salvation in my life, unless he is in the process of doing it for the world in general, and for Osama bin Laden in particular…

Lord, please show us how to be witnesses for you and your global salvific love in this time! Help us maximize this opportunity for your glory. Draw people to you through this event and through the repercussions that it is sure to have not just in the USA and the Middle East but around the world.

#3

And may God forgive us for the acts we’ve done to provoke their people to such an extreme, as well, and reconcile us all together.

Back in the first few months after 9/11 I was making graphics that said, “Jesus loves Osama too” although no one ever really saw 'em but my brother. hah.

#4

So should Christian be happy the revenge was taken? I notice that Jason was thankful that the folks that tracked him down brought him to justice. Or did I (once again) totally misread?

#5

I don’t think we should ever rejoice in revenge.

Justice, though, is a different story–true justice we should always rejoice in.

So the question is, was what happened to OBL justice? I think not–it was merely him reaping what he sowed. “Those who live by the sword die by the sword.” Justice is making things right. Killing OBL does not make things right, in that it doesn’t restore any of his victims or their families.

Only God can make things right, and he did on the cross (and Jesus’ resurrection). Only the work of the cross in the victims’ lives (and those of their families) can make things right with them, and only the work of the cross in OBL’s (after)life will bring him to justice.

On the surface of it, there is little to rejoice over here. Looking deeper, though, we can rejoice that perhaps even now God is lifting the veil from OBL’s eyes and leading him down the (long?) road to repentance and reconciliation…

#6

I would never say that simply killing him fulfills justice, nor simply punishing him in any other way.

But then, I was grateful that they sent him to Justice. :slight_smile: That’s rather different.

And damn skippy I’m happy they took him out of causing more injustice in this life. Though as I also said, I would have been happier had he repented and so contributed more to this life (even if he died as a result of repenting).

I should add that I am rather a bloodthirsty person by nature, however, and this may be salting my opinion.

#7

The thing on my plate now in this whole issue is the series of staunch “Republicanites” who insist that Obama (whom they swear is a Muslim) is in some conspiracy with him; some even claiming Osama didn’t even exist… :confused:

#8

Amen!!!

I fear we have made a martyr of him among his muslim brothers. While I see that this is an end to his reign of injustice, I can’t help but wonder if it will, on a larger scope, just breed more injustice.

Unfortunately we humans cannot accomplish justice - God be praised that He can and will!

#9

Suffice it to say I can stomach your rejoicing much more than I can that of most others. I still question many aspects of the story, so that’s probably also tainting my view. If I were 100% completely sold on it, I think I’d be happy though not joyous.

I’m not a complete pacifist, either.

#10

Thanks for that Stellar, a powerful thought to share. There isn’t a ‘like’ function but I thought it was a well thought out and oft ignored sentiment.

I am a pacifist and Osama’s death smacks of summery execution without trial. However, legally speaking, this perhaps is an ill fitting suit in a ‘war’ situation. That said, no one seems to countenance the idea that he might have been captured and brought to trial. There are of course technical issues involved in that kind operation, but this surely would have been the preferable option?

One other note on the issue is the apparent respect paid to Osama’s body in observing Islamic funerary rights, not what one might first expect from the US special forces. I cannot thank God that someone has been killed, but this small act perhaps gives me hope.

#11

Nice blending of sentiments and emotions and reality Jason. Not easy to balance them all. For there really are many layers of things going on with this news; especially for we who embrace Universalism.

For those chagrined at the celebrations of his death, I wonder what your opinions of the imprecatory Psalms are?
For example,

I do appreciate the fact that we universalists look forward to the day when God’s glory is revealed even further by the repentance of OBL.

But lets also face up to another reality and promise. And that is there is coming a time when those who have come to abide in Christ are separated from those for whom this coming to Christ is yet future. The evil and unrepentant really do cause great distress and turmoil and pain for the rest of us. So I’ve got no problem at all rejoicing in our separation from this evil man by his death. There remains a much greater separation in the future of the good from the wicked and I also look forward eagerly to that. Hope that doesn’t hurt any feelings…

We know however that this separation is not permanent and we do not rejoice or revel in the suffering of the wicked. And any talk of “Justice” cannot be over until God has made right ALL the wrongs of this earths struggle. And those wrongs will not be fully “made right” until ALL are standing at God’s side in worship and adoration. Including OBL and his victims.
Amazingly, that is the exact solution to sin that Universalism claims!

TotalVictory
Bobx3

#12

Like I said, I can stomach those kinds of rejoicings. And there’s a certain righteous rejoicing at the putting down of a truly dangerous individual who could cause tragedy at any point in time. I just doubt that this was the exact situation.

Also, I think there’s a difference between ‘rejoicing’ and ‘exulting.’ The former is relief and mere happiness; the latter would be gloating and clothed hatred.