There is nothing missing, it is just a model, a different way of looking at what people hold dear as yourself. You can agree, or you can say I’ll look into it, or you can say I’ll have no part of it.
Your choice.
Good Luck.
The main thing that is missing is the need for repentance (having a change of heart and mind) and submitting to Christ. You are mistaken in thinking Christ’s magnificent sacrifice on our behalf automatically covers everyone no matter what they do or how they live.
The Lord Jesus said, “Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Oh yes, I know! He didn’t say those words to you, and so you can ignore them completely!
Well I tell you that they apply to you just as surely as they apply to those to whom He was speaking! If you deny it, why don’t you also deny that He died for you? Maybe his wonderful sacrifice covers only those who were living at the time He sacrificed Himself.
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I agree! As I told davo, while some texts can speak of victory over sin as already established by Christ, ‘taking away’ all sin clearly requires a repentant change in our direction under the power called “sin,” and a continued process to complete such a victory.
My own sense is that insisting that the Bible’s message is that sin itself no longer exists, requires a classically fundamentalist kind of simplistically using selected texts, and dismissing many others. .
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Has the “condition” or “guilt” of unsaved sinners in any way changed since the cross? Is it any different than before the cross? Are psychiatrists in the wrong business & only imagining that their patients suffer from a condition called “guilt” or condemnation?
You say this condition of sin(=guilt) “hung over” humanity. Where was it hanging from? That sounds like it is outside of them, not a “condition” of “guilt” which is normally understood to be within a person. Clearly the experience of such a guilty condition has not been taken away from inside the hearts of the people of the world. Just ask any shrink.
Scripture says there is no condemnation, i.e. no guilt, to those “in Christ Jesus”, not to all the world:
Rom.8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death
OTOH those outside of Christ will face condemnation:
Mt.12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the south will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and now One greater than Solomon is here.
MK.16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Heb.11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family. By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
1 Cor.11:31 Now if we judged ourselves properly, we would not come under judgment. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
This is fantastic Paidion… you couldn’t have given a more perfect example of your poor grasping of the text.
Jesus uses a real-life HISTORICAL event they could all relate to and uses the same to give HIS OWN PEOPLE warning of a like impending disaster, i.e., AD70, in the hopes that IF they changed their minds aka “repent” having BELIEVED his words THEY WOULD LIVE!
So what? No one doubts that the Bible narrative’s typical picture of God’s judgments on sinners is presented as coming in HISTORICAL events. But it doesn’t follow from citing that, that you can assert that God won’t exercise judgments anymore, or that repentance is no longer called for. Like Paidion, Jesus argues that the past is prologue, and the lesson is that repentance remains vital, even for those who assume that it was only a concern for others.
On such an important factor in God’s dealing with mankind in Christ this is a welcome agreement.
It is true I do tend to ignore assumptions that keep being made of my position when once I’ve explained, clarified and challenged such, but then those assumptions keep being run.
Thumbs up!
In essence the apostles are preaching their message of repentance in the context of the coming end, i.e., the end of their old covenant age / world (not the end of our time-space universe) urging them to avoid that coming disaster (Rom 11:14; 1Tim 2:4; 2Pet 3:9; Mt 24:13) — and in particular those in Jerusalem who believed would by the nature of things heed Jesus’ words to get out of Dodge or they would face what was coming (Lk 21:20-22; Deut 28:49-57; Jos. Wars 6:3:4) when THEY saw certain signs, as these were such as indicating… “the end is nigh.”
Well THIS is so disappointing, but to be totally honest UNSURPRISING… just when I thought you were getting it, it appears YET AGAIN not! Pantelism does NOT say… “sin itself no longer exists” — Pantelism says the offence, i.e., the guilt-separation-condemnation etc that the sin wrought against man has been taken out of the way.
As a result we can all take accountability for our own misdeeds, transgressions, trespasses and sins that affect EACH OTHER. God removed the blockage that stood between humanity and Himself vertically and his grace enables us to do the same with each other horizontally.
“But it doesn’t follow from citing that, that you can assert… that repentance is no longer called for. YOU Bob are being blatantly DECEPTIVE AND DISHONEST as I’ve made NO such claim — find a quote!!
Davo, your constant criticisms about the language we non-experts on Pantelism use to express your view gets old!!! You insist that we must hold that already “sin has been taken AWAY.” So I state that assuming your definition of it, such “sin” is no longer existent upon us, and you mock me for not repeating your idiosyncratic definition (which I have not missed grasping at all). That repeated kind of word game response just means that the real differences I am presenting get ignored by you.
More positively, your admission that while you find the texts you cite to be applicable, the texts I cite are to be understood as outdated reflects as I have repeatedly said, a pivotal difference in our assumptions. It would have been nice if the apostles had spelled out that the sacrifice of Christ had not been adequate to take away sin, but that when the Romans invade Jerusalem, THEN God would be satisfied, and the kind of guilt and judgments that had always reflected God’s disposition toward sin would no longer need to concern readers.
But as I’ve repeated, I am not surprised that reasonable readers did not deduce that.
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Thank you. The same to you.
[quote=“davo, post:152, topic:13100, full:true”]
I know you want believers to turn from sins. But Paidion argued that Jesus’ message was repentance, which I’ve regularly taken MM to say is not the right message to proclaim today. You objected that Jesus’ message of repentance was for his own, and judgment ended in AD70.
Are you now saying that you’ve only agreed with my and Paidion’s claim that in the face of God’s judgment, the Bible does point toward calling the world to faith in Christ and the “repentance for the forgiveness of sins” that I keep citing?? If that simply IS your imperative to sinners, your repeated assertions that I blatantly LIE and DECEIVE are nonsense. It would be that my lack of acuity just finds your rhetoric confusing.
I’d be glad to hear that you agree with us that warnings about repentance are crucial for a world of “sinners” to hear, and I apologize for my dimness if that is what you’ve asserted. If that is actually not the imperative for you, then your outrage is just again evading our actual issues.
It’s either a case of put up or shut up… some quotes of mine please Bob 
That you can say this after my previous statements is unbelievable. I have for example made my (pantelist) position CLEAR even in this very thread, right HERE.
And here below from up the page I gave YOU a CLEAR response regarding the pantelist position on repentance…
Misunderstanding I can manage… your wilful lying however I’ll call it for what it is — don’t keep us all waiting for some quotes Bob. 
Well, to Chad and Davo. I have looked outside the Evangelical model. And I have attempted, to grasp at the text. So I assume the Biblical committees of scholars, have gotten their translations right. And if I were to read the Protestant Bible, through the NIIV, NLT, and ESV…I probably have a good understanding, of what the texts mean.
And I have also studied what the Eastern Orthodox, bring to the table. Along with Anglicans, like N.T. Wright and C.S. Lewis. And I even stepped into, the non-traditional world - of Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science.
But also this reminds me of Plato-ism. Where we are trying to understand, the ideal or perfect form of “text”. As if Christ and the apostles, are teaching some type of Esoteric Christianity…much like the Theosophical clergy, of the Liberal Catholic Church proclaim.
Now maybe at the end of the day, Davo might have things right. Or Mary Baker Eddy, might have things right. But again, God has made a callosal failure - to get his or her message across.
At least with those proclaiming the Zombie Apocalypse,… I know what point, they are trying to make.
What’s the basis for your claim Randy?
Only a SELECT FEW, are understanding God’s message. Whether that’s you, Mary Baker Eddy or others, with “non-traditional” theologies. Assuming one or more is true. If God wants to save and redeem the world…then God should try to have everyone, understand the basics at least. I shouldn’t need Davo to explain Pantelism, for me to get Christ’s message. Or read Science and Health, with a Key to the Scriptures - to understand Christ’s message.
It’s like the church collectively (i.e. Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant), just don’t get it. That is… Until Davo came along. Or Mary Baker Eddy came along. Or Rev. Peter Popoff came along. Etc.
“Nobody cares if you can’t dance well. Just get up and dance.”-- Dave Barry
You don’t need me nor pantelism… I’m simply contesting ideas. You might as well dress your logic up in universalism and bleat the same rationale about that given the bulk of fundamentalist evangelicalism isn’t buying the universalist message either — let alone your own zombie missive; where’s your consistency Randy?
I follow the zombies. They are not consistent. It should be noted that I’m a hopeful universalist…And not a convinced universalist.
I’m NOT so worried about Pantelism, Davo. In fact, I do hope it becomes as popular…as Christian Science was - in its heyday. But the more popular you might become, the more enemies you will have - to try and take you down.
Let others like Bob and Paidion, argue on the merits of text. I still need to promote the Zombie Apocalypse…as the most probable, end-times tribulation model. 
Anyway, I leave everyone with a 3 minute review…by some person on Science and Health, with a Key to the Scriptures.
Well you only heard from me Randy with regards to this ridiculous claim of yours above, and as though that was somehow relative to my position.
You can label it what you will, Davo. But if what you say is the truth, then only folks like you and Chad - get it.
Or perhaps folks like Mary Baker Eddy?
Suppose a movie producer produces a movie. And Wiki does a plot summary. Well, everyone contributes to the movie review. But only ONE reviewer, understands what the movie is about. But they don’t contribute on Wiki. Maybe he or she is right. Maybe NOT.
Or let’s put things into a MARKETING prospective. Now you talk about Pantelism here. But HOW MANY are agreeing publicly - with it here? And in all the websites and blogs you post it on…what does the Google Analytics and other tools…;say about the number of visitors, etc? Compared to the population of the world?
