Bob: I’m hearing that it is false (ie unhelpful, incorrect, incoherent, etc) to place Determinism and Free Will in any kind of tension or competition with each other. Still however, I wonder how to relate the two and how they interact?
Tom: Not in competition, just different tendencies to become, different measurements of causal influence upon events as possibilities get realized. Causal influences inherent in some state of affair might be maximal, in which case what that state of affairs transitions into in the next moment is limited to one possible outcome. That’s an instance of causal determinism. But causal influences inherent in some state of affairs might be minimal, in which case there are a number of possibilities for becoming which that one state faces for the next moment. The future of THAT state would be ‘open’. The future of the former state (maximal causal influence) would be ‘closed’. For any discrete entity (or state of affair, or event, let’s say), its future is either ‘open’ or ‘closed’. It can’t be both. That’s the “mixing” of determinism and indeterminism that I’d deny.
Paidion argues that the future of ALL entities and events is always ‘open’ to some extent. He denies the category of ‘maximal causal influence’ per se. Nothing is THAT determined by its present existence that it only ever has ONE possibility it can actualize (that would mean there’s only ONE thing that can happen with it in the next moment, only ONE direction it can take). I think there ARE maximally influenced events in the universe. Some things DO follow deterministically from previous states. No biggie though.
Bob: I guess I’m asking, in part, something like "to what extent can God’s grace be considered “determinism”? Clearly there seems to be a large component of God’s involvement in causing (is allowing a better concept here?) our response. (eg Can God’s actions or His interactions with Paul on the road to Damascus be considered in any way deterministic?)
Tom: This is more difficult to be sure. Since for Paidion there is no ‘determinism’ per se, your question can be dismissed. God cannot determine anything in the world, including us, our choices, the circumstances of our lives and existence, whatever. No determinism of events.
But I have to chime in because I think God may (within the range of variables, or the rules of engagement, which are grounded in God himself and which govern interpersonal relationships) determine a good deal about the world and our lives, except for the ‘choice’ for him (or against him). That has to reflect ‘me’ coming into relationship (or not) with God. That’s the only way the resulting relationship can be an ‘inter-personal’ one. And the only way a choice can be uniquely reflective of me is if I’m the final arbiter in determining the choice. I have to be free. In other words, I think there’s room within those creational variables for God to kick the furniture over, show up and ‘do stuff’, part the red sea, incarnate, raise the dead, send dreams and visions, etc., heal the sick (all which appear to involve determining the created order in some fashion on some level), and even determine much about my circumstances (send me to hell, turn the heat up, burn away all my false selves, etc. (again, looks like there’s some determining of the created order there)…but God cannot manhandle the human ‘will’ with respect to choosing for or against God, love, etc., and hope to get what he wants out of the person. Determine THAT and you lose what you want, someone on the other end ‘loving’ you.
So I’d be inclined to deny that Paul on the Damascus road was psychologically incapable of blowing Christ off and continuing on with his pogrom of Christians. I’d say that WAS possible.
Bob: It really does seem to me that in a real way, God has bound Himself by certain rules which constrain certain types of activity on His part; that is He constrains Himself from acting in completely deterministic ways. But how can we deny matters of degree? None of you are doing that – right?
Tom: God can determine some things and not determine others, sure. I’m not sure what it would mean for God to determine the occurrence of some event “a little bit” and not determine its occurrence “most of the way.” Not sure that’s even meaningful. But I suppose God can make the right choice as ‘likely’ as possible by providing us with optimal chances to make the right choice. And personally I do think that given ALL the contributing factors and rules of engagement that God set in place to govern the God-World relationship, God is always doing all God can do (given those variables) to maximize good and minimize evil in the world. We never have his bird’s eye view, so the world will often appear as if God is uninvolved. But I think that’s just our limited perspectives. If we saw everything at play and comprehended all the contributing influences, we’d conclude that divine action in the world always maximally supervenes upon the world to maximize good and minimize evil. But in this world those variables permit, say, the death of the unevangelized who die without any knowledge of the love of God. But there are good reasons to think that the variables governing the afterlife will guarantee an eventual optimal measure of revelation and knowledge (and the restoration of rationality, for the mentally handicapped, for example) for the right choice to be made.
Bob: I’m toying with a way of saying it whereby God acts as deterministically as He must to enable our free choice.
Tom: Oh, OK, then. That’s different. God acting deterministically to “enable” rational and free choice is one thing. God can do that without determining “the choice” itself, which is another thing. No problem there. I can, for example, relate deterministically to my drug addicted loved one by locking them away in a room to dry out, and I can do so “to enable” them to make wise choices again. I restore their faculties to give them a fresh start. That’s determination of another, yes. But I don’t think it’s an unloving thing to do or that it violates them in illegitimate ways. But only so far as to “inform” and “enable,” sure. But what can’t be determined in the same manner is the actual exercise of the person’s will for God.
At least that’s where I am right now!
Tom