The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Paul: "If you burn in hell forever, that's not my problem"

Evangelical Universalism
#1

Normally, I like the New Living translation, but I recently ran across this disturbing passage in Acts 20:26-27.

Was this really what Paul was saying? Was he so callous about the eternal fate of anyone’s soul? It reminds me of those comic book-style Jack Chick tracts where some poor guy is being sent to Hell, and he’s tearfully asking his Christian friend (who is on his way to Heaven), “Why didn’t you tell me about Jesus?” Even before I believed in UR, I could never accept the implication that someone I know could be damned not because of any choices they made in life, but simply because I didn’t share the Gospel with them. Of course, that doesn’t absolve me of the responsibility of sharing the Good News, but I can’t accept that God’s plan for anyone’s salvation is so haphazard.

Anyway, I checked some other English translations, and it looks like most of them use the phrase “innocent of the blood”, such as the NIV:

I’m not exactly sure what that means, but it appears to be a case of translation bias in the NLT. They could be reading into that passage their preconceived ideas of ECT, especially considering how rarely Paul mentioned hell in any of his writings. Any thoughts?

#3

Off topic, now. I’m happy someone has chosen a Avatar and forum name, from a Science Fiction character :exclamation: :smiley:

Crow T. Robot

And I’ll bet some of you thought, I wouldn’t catch that :exclamation: :laughing:

#4

CrowTRobot,
I think it is safe to say they have “interpreted” that part of the verse rather than “translated” it. It might be what they would consider “dynamic equivalency” to say “eternal death” but it is rather shoddy workmanship on their part.

#5

CrowT Robot, Personally I don’t believe that what Paul is saying here refers to the afterlife. I think it has more to do with the continuing posterity of the children of the Lord. This stems back to the Old Testament, where Ezekiel 3:17-19 says this: "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me; When I say to the wicked, "You shall surely die,’ and you give them , nor speak to warn people the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. “Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor his wicked way , he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.” Verses 20-21 go on to say the same thing. Servants of the Lord are their brothers keepers, guardians and protectors of the truth and the way( the tree of life), and watchmen as well. All throughout the Old Testament warnings(blowing of the trumpets) are given before disaster occurs. This is so that people are not taken by surprise. They have been told what is going to happen, so they can either prepare for what is coming or ignore the warning.

#6

I remember a comic of two guys sitting at a table having coffee and doughnuts. The one said to the other “I’d tell my neighbor he is going to burn in hell for eternity but I don’t want to hurt his feelings.”

#7

Nice to see you back, CtR!

I’ll check the apparatai tomorrow; maybe the NLT is referring to textual variant.

#8

{checking}

Nope. I did find one textual variation (in D and a few of its immediate copies) for the first clause, which just says the same thing more briefly that Paul is declaring something to them today. I even checked Green’s Textus Receptus, which sometimes features variations in the Greek so freaking late that they don’t even technically show up as listed in the Byz/Majority text family. Even he talks about Paul being pure or clean of the blood of them all.

Wow. The NLT really swung hard for driving the green on the par 7 there! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

IT’S MYSTERY TEXTUAL CRITICISM 3000!!

#9

Now, are you ready for some delicious irony? :mrgreen: :smiling_imp:

Paul didn’t hesitate to declare to the Ephesian congregation (in that scene, where he’s departing from never to see them again in this life) the whole counsel of God, which is why he’ll be innocent or pure of their blood if they fall away again (as he goes on to imply).

What was that whole counsel of God that (as the NLT also sort of invents a translation for) God wants them to know?

There’s no secret mystery about it: Paul himself reminds the Ephesians later, in his epistle to the Ephesians, what the secret will of God is, which God operates everything for (using the same energy by which He saves and resurrects people) according to the counsel of His will.

The counsel and will of God, is that absolutely all creatures shall come back out of their rebellions, even the spiritual powers who are still in rebellion, into being faithful followers of God under the leadership of Jesus Christ! – using terms Paul definitely also connects with the salvation of himself and the Ephesians into being Christians.

So, it turns out that the NLT translators, in completely inventing this translation about what Paul taught the Ephesians, kind of shrank back or hesitated from telling the Ephesians (and us in reading Paul’s declarations to them) all that God wants them, and us, to know!

#10

That’s really par for the course. :laughing:

#11

Each NLT translator should should always wear 2 pairs of pants. In case they get a hole in one. :exclamation: :laughing:

#12

If a god actually created a hell, he would definitely be a vile demiurge.

Such a place would be demonstrably immoral and only those who have sold their moral soul to Satan would follow any god who would create or use such a place.

youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Regards
DL

#13

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I feel better about it now.

#14

Jason said:

I might respectively counter that Christ has done all of his redeeming work at the cross and that we are now a new creation. We are now one with Christ. The important word is ALL :exclamation: :confused:

#15

Hi maintenanceman. I surely do like your thoughts. Indeed we are to see ourselves as a new creation in Christ. We are to see ourselves as “alive from among the dead.” We are to see ourselves as “complete in Christ.”

As to what Jason stated, I would agree with him in that the spiritual powers of wickedness have not yet been reconciled with God and in fact we are still dealing with them (why else would we need the whole armor of God?)
Even believers need to await their resurrection or change from mortality and corruption to that of immortality and incorruption to actually be the new creation that we, by faith, see ourselves being now.

#16

Why would you want to be one with the immoral Jesus that the church mostly speaks of?

Do you think that Jesus’ no-divorce and his sacrifice/substitutionary atonement policies to be in any way moral?

Regards
DL

#17

Is in-corruption possible while following corrupted laws and rules?

Please read the post just above and opine to it.

Regards
DL

#18

I’m not sure what you mean by the above. How is Jesus immoral?

I don’t believe Christ’s death was substitutionary but rather it was inclusionary.

If you go here: s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchablerich/booksonwebsite/%C2%A9CPC+Substitution+or+Inclusion.pdf

you can read about “Substitution or Inclusion.” It is a PDF and so will need the free Adobe Reader.

One can always go here and read it for free too: concordant.org/free-media-library/other-publications/

#19

Do you think that Jesus’ no-divorce and his sacrifice/substitutionary atonement policies to be in any way moral?

Regards
DL

#20

Okay, GB, you aren’t even reading the posts you’re replying to, while insisting other people read your non-interactive posts and opine to them: Eus already told you he doesn’t regard Jesus’ atonement to be substitutional, so quoting him saying that and then merely repeating yourself with a copy paste to ask him does he think Jesus’ substitutionary atonement policies to be in any way moral, is one thousand per cent pointless.

This has been pointed out to you before. All you’re doing now is flamebaiting or trolling.

It’s time for you to move along and go do something else with your life.

#21

Bite me.

Regards
DL