The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Pets in the Kingdom?

Theology Soteriology
#1

Yesterday morning, a dear friend of mine had to put his Yellow Lab to sleep after 13 years of loving companionship. Moose was a beast of a dog, some 120 pounds and nearly hip-high at the top of his head, but with the loveliest and gentlest heart. Kind and playful, with such a love for life and an insatiable curiosity about the world around him. And I swear that dog had a true a sense of humor. He was a joy to be around. But Labrador hips do eventually fail, and Moose’s pain and disabilities reached the point where my friend did the awful, but humane, thing. Naturally, he is devastated by the loss.

So the question is, will my friend meet Moose once again at the restoration of all things? I told him I believe so, and I based it on Romans 8:

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this subject? Any words of encouragement I could share with my friend?

Love,

Andy

#2

Andy,

I had the privelage of holding my yellow lab/golden retriever in my lap (on the floor) when she passed away last November. She was a rescue dog that we drove all the way to Utah for. About 10 hous for us. At the shelter they had nick named her “Sweete” and she WAS just that. Forgive me, I’m having a hard time seeing the keys as I type this. She was an angel on earth. We had her about eight and a half years and she was around 18 months when we got her. She had just had a litter of pups and someone abandoned her in the middle of the desert. That precious animal brought us and EVERYONE she met so much joy!! We kept the name Sweetie as it fit her so well. I’m real sick and she ALWAYS knew my worst days, she wouldn’t leave my side, never. She’d crawl up on the bed with me and lay her nose and face across my chest. I so loved her and when we found out she was in conjestive heart failure, the vet said it could be two hours, two days, two months, or two years. So we did know a little bit in advance that she would die sooner rather than later. Saturday, Nov. 6, 2011, she sarted wandering the house and would stand in a corner and not move. I finally sat down on the kitchen floor (after calling our vet on Sat. and letting him know how bad off she was and that we NEEDED to put her down on Sunday if possible) and let her lay her head in my lap one last time. I kept saying like I had all her life, “Kiss your face, kiss your face,” and I’d do just that. She “went” in my arms on my lap and I sobbed like a baby… she was so darn precious to me. That uncondiotional love that ONLY an animal can give… she didn’t care one iota about who I was or what I was, she just knew that I loved her and she loved me. So to answer your question, for me, heaven will NOT be heaven without my Sweetie!!! No way, no how! I have pictures up of her throughout the house and when I get down and out, I just look at her and say, “I’ll see ya soon Sweetie Pie.” How could God have created these creatures for OUR enjoyment, to love and care for, never to see them again??? I repeat, heaven would NOT be heaven for me without Sweetie. I think God knows this and why would He create this bond between dog and owner only to break it??? I’m fairly certain I will see Sweetie again and I believe that your friend will see Moose again too!!! Ok, gotta go cause I need a Kleenex! :cry:

#3

Dear Bret,

Thank you so much for replying and sharing your love for Sweetie. Obviously, you had a wonderful friend in her! I’ve had some great furry friends over the years myself. It might sound a little batty, but I wish sometimes that I could be as good a person as many of the dogs I’ve known have been, including Moose and my own dogs, too. It sounds like I would have had a pretty good role model in your Sweetie, too. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I agree with you that it seems well nigh impossible to imagine a heaven without those amazing friendships restored. So Romans 8 notwithstanding, I guess that’s why I think Moose and Sweetie and my old friends Cody and Cowboy and Bart and Hildy and the like will be a part of the restitution of all things.

Peace and blessings and every kind of healing to you,

Your brother, Andy

#4

Yep, I reference Rom 8, too. :smiley:

Part of the problem I think is that people in the times and cultures of the scriptures didn’t really have pets in the sense we’re thinking of. So the scriptures just don’t talk about them. But they clearly do exist!–in our time and place anyway.

No good will be lost; God will restore and fulfill every true good, although He may have to adjust it to fit better without prior corruptions and in the new circumstances. :slight_smile: But that’s basically what Rom 8 is about, too.

Granted, I may be initially annoyed if I discover that what I loved was never a person (even if a rudimentary proto-person); but why would God not restore that which was never a person to begin with? And why would God not raise as much of Nature to loving personhood as is Godly possible?!–so that (as it is written) love may increase and the increase of His kingdom will never have an ending?!

But if they were persons (as I expect), then God will restore our fellowship with them. Or if they were shadows of the persons to come, we shall finally meet them again for the first time. :smiley:

#5

Thanks Jason, for a very interesting and helpful take!

I can see how it is virtually certain that the reconciled relationship will be different, and I expect better even, than the first.

Love,

Andy

#6

Thank you Andy for the very kind and thoughtful words. And Jason, leave it to YOU to plant a new seed in my little brain… I NEVER thought of it like that before. I’m JUST now able to come back to the puter and write about OUR pets. :cry: Even though it was 7 months ago, not a day goes by that I don’t shed a tear because I miss her so. It doesn’t help that I do have pictures up all over the house of Sweetie Pie! Actually it does.

So thank you Andy and Jason for the words of comfort, I think BobX3 is right that sometimes we are called upon here on earth to represent the love of God in human form and you two have just done that for me. :slight_smile: Thank you.

Blessings you two,
Bret

#7

Interesting question Andy – and one I recall asking just shortly after I joined this site!!

[Does UR include beloved pets??)

For me it was a testing of the logical boundaries sort of thing with regards to Universalism. That is, just how far does this wonder of Universal restoration extend?? I mean if God can redeem the worst of sinners (I believe He does just that! praise God!) as a way of returning, or taking, the world to a better place and state, then why not include our beloved pets?
My vote is “yes”!!

I’ve often toyed with the idea of asking unbelievers to imagine their feelings and love and commitment for their pets… then imagine that God feels that way about THEM – except a thousand times over! I’ve never actually done it, but the idea resonates with me.

So, with your friend, and not to stray too far toward Eastern mysticism or anything, I think that when we love, with passion and with abandon and absence of judgmental harshness – the way we love our pets – we have touched off a ripple into the Universe which simply joins with all other such ripples and does not end. And that ripples ultimate source, which turns out to be the creative force of the Universe, can be traced directly back to God. Imagine if we loved each other like we love our pets. Kingdom of heaven would be palpable!!

My vote is “YES”!!

Bobx3

#8

I’m pretty strongly in favor of the idea that, as God loves us into existence as rational souls but has set things up so that in this life we barely register and develop as persons at all without the love of derivative persons, too (thus allowing those who love us to cooperate with God even when they don’t know God). The same would thus be true for (other!) animals when we love them. Insofar as God has made provision for them to be rational souls, we further awaken and foster those souls with our love.

my belóved’s cát is a mágic cát
more alíve and awáre than óther cáts:
sháring in lífe etérnal
b´y the enchántment óf her lóve

(Very loose topical paraphrase of those verses from Romans 8. :mrgreen: )

#9

Beautifully stated Jason. Now that’s what I call authentic universal salvation! Being human is not the exclusive prevue of homo sapiens sapiens. The Human One (the son of man) is Jesus Christ, He is humanizing the entire cosmos and making all things alive. The so-called primitive animists were not superstitious, they were just seeing through the glass darkly, like all of us. They were anticipating something that is not quite yet in the here and now–the full indwelling of YHWH in the creation.

#10

Yep; George MacDonald has several things to say along that line, too. :smiley: