Plantinga & Universalism

DisposableSoul · March 9, 2018, 2:08am

Alvin Plantinga on Universalism:

youtube.com/watch?v=yhohcPhM … ture=share

2:10-4:45 is the section. Thanks to Keith DeRose for finding this little gem.

–DS

Alex_Smith · March 9, 2018, 2:08am

Yes, Keith & Alvin are great. It’s encouraging that such high calibre Philosophers view universalism so favourably

phillip_macdonald · March 9, 2018, 2:08am

That is a real gem!

I don’t know where his brother stands on all this but he skates pretty close to the edge:

"To speak of sin by itself, to speak of it apart from the realities of creation and grace, is to forget the resolve of God. God wants shalom and will pay any price to get it back. Human sin is stubborn, but not as stubborn as the grace of God and not half so persistent, not half so ready to suffer to win its way.

"Moreover, to speak of sin by itself is to misunderstand its nature: sin is only a parasite, a vandal, a spoiler. Sinful life is a partly depressing, partly a ludicrous caricature of genuine human life. To concentrate on our rebellion, defection and folly — to say to the world, ‘I have some bad news and I have some bad news’ — is to forget that the center of the Christian religion is not our sin but our Savior.

“To speak of sin without grace is to minimize the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the fruit of the Spirit, and the hope of shalom.”
                                                                            -- Cornelius Plantinga "Not the Way It's Supposed to Be" (page 199)

grace and peace,
phillip
godslovewins.com

stellar_renegade · March 9, 2018, 2:08am

Very encouraging thread. I knew I loved Alvin Plantinga for a reason. And I really love what his brother said!

Elliot_Swatto · March 9, 2018, 2:12am

Wow! That is amazing! I really love Alvin Plantinga - probably one of my favorite philosophers! His work on the Problem of Evil and Ontological argument is also really good…

Melchizedek · March 9, 2018, 2:12am

I’m going to have to check this out when I have a few minutes…

Hmm. So he’s a hopeful universalist at best. He “doesn’t believe it, but doesn’t disbelieve it either”. That sounds like either significant doubt or hedging to me. Still, that’s farther than most believers would go.

Alex_Smith · March 9, 2018, 2:56am

Unfortunately the YouTube link got taken down but at about the 51 minute mark (& again at 58) of this debate he says something similar.

Cole · March 9, 2018, 2:56am

I love Alvin.

addseo1115 · March 9, 2018, 3:13am

that the center of the Christian religion is not our sin but our Savior.
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