The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Poll: What's Your Theory of Atonement?

i guess that’s the Arminian background :wink:
for me, i have to believe in both God’s sovereignty and ultimate power as much as i believe He is Light and Love as per 1 John.
contrariwise, i have a low view on our human will (it’s arguably VERY limited), though i do believe it’s important. God didn’t create robots.
being a universalist helps me resolve these things. though i’d vehemently disagree with Calvinists that argue that God somehow shows His sovereignty and power by damning people. that to me would just show bullying. God isn’t a bully, though He is VERY persuasive.

I think I’m pretty much on the same page as you with this, corpselight :slight_smile:

lol…then if i’m wrong at least i don’t go down alone :wink:

:smiley: Well that too! :laughing: But it’s mainly because I believe that the divine nature is perfectly an-archistic. If I think that Yeshua is an an-archist who rejects authority and is the express image of God, then I can only believe that Yahweh rejects authority too. I think His greatest authority and power comes from servitude – though He maintains an omnipotence and Kingship (traditionally understood) and could choose to exercise as much of this power as He so wished. He is radically self-regulated though and even goes so far to place Himself under the demands and power of S/satan and Death (to redeem us! – what wondrous love is this?!). S/satan doesn’t rightfully have authority over anything. But God is that humble! What a radical, eh?! I love it! I think calling Yeshua a ‘King’ is really just a mockery of worldly power. For Yeshua is actually the King (greatest/humblest) of servants. So these days, my Arminianism and low view of “sovereignty” actually flows from this kind of thinking. I hope my Christus Victor makes a bit more sense now.

aaaaand i’m back on the page with you lol
i haven’t thought all this out yet, but i agree, Jesus didn’t consider equality with God something to be grasped…definitely seems anarchic to me.
that does speak to me of anarchy. and i don’t think God would find eternity fulfilling if He just spent it Lording it over us all. He’s the God that walks in the garden with us.
probably like in good family situations when a child grows up and is treated as an equal by the parents, or nearly.
i’m sort of a Christi-anarchist, in the sense that i don’t approve of man’s authority over man, but i do think Christ has the right to authority, and He has my trust that He will use it for good…totally the opposite to how we would use it.
yes, this may take some more thought.
thanks for expounding on that, though. i get where you’re coming from now!

Glad that helped sort that out a little. The family is a good metaphor. Hmm… I probably consider myself a Christian anarchist – I’m not sure anyone has noticed, (I admit I have poorly drawn the Ω), but my display picture is actually a Christian variant of the Ⓐ commonly used to symbolize Proudhon’s famous maxim “Anarchy is Order!”, to show that Yeshua is indeed the “Alpha and Omega”! I take no credit for the idea and though I would not normally embrace anarchist symbolism, I love it anyway! :smiley:

yep i did notice that :smiley:
altruistic, pacifist anarchism is the way forward!!! which to me is pretty much what Jesus taught!!! and even where governments still exist (ie everywhere), the values of Christian anarchy (or the Kingdom of God as i like to call it) bring good things.