The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Prepared For Destruction


#1

"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22

Fitted/ Prepared=katartivzw

Katartivzw=

To render or to fit.

To make sound or complete.

To mend what has been broken or rent.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To put in order.

To arrange. To adjust.

To fit or frame for one’s self.

To strengthen, to perfect, to complete.

To make one what he aught to be.

Dr. Marvin Vincent

Fitted/prepared= kathrtismena=

Literally: adjusted or mended.

“ei de qelwn o qeoV endeixasqai thn orghn kai gnwrisai to dunaton autou hnegken en pollh makroqumia skeuh orghV kathrtismena eiV apwleian”

Romans 9:22 - What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?.

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?


#2

The punishment of the Father of all fathers is not merely correction: it is correction that improves, changes, transforms for the better.

Our God punishes with an objective in view, not as an end in itself!

There are dual aspects to our Father’s Realm as shown in the following…

Tamiym/ 'ymt means to be consumed, destroyed, exhausted and spent, but also to be finished and made sound.

Kalal has the same meaning, linking destruction, being spent, exhausted, as well as to be finished and made sound.

Tamam, the root word of Tamiym means to be finished, complete, summed up, made whole: linked with to be consumed, exhausted, spent and destroyed.

Shalam/ ~IX, another expression of destruction, has the scope of being finished and ended, made good or whole, & being made sound, coupled with to be restored.

Shebar, rooted in Shabar, means breakout, and being brought to birth; and underlying new birth and breakout? To be crushed and broken. Again there is dual meaning in our Lord’s words of destruction and re-creation.

Chalowph

The destructive Hebrew word Chalowph is rooted in being altered, renewed, changed, and to sprout again. It should also be noted that this is not just change, but change for the better.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis


#3

Romans 9:22 is an interesting case of ambiguity. The first version of Romans 9:22 you listed says God shows his wrath and makes his power known. The second implies, through the word although, that God does not show His wrath and make His power known.

This is not a trivial matter. It has serious repercussions on whether what is chosen (based on the Greek word thelo) by God occurs. In all cases of the usage of thelo in the Bible, other than the second version of Romans 9:22 above, what God chooses (or wants, desires, etc.) indeed occurs.


#4

Dear Lancia: I am afraid you have lost me with the second implied “although” can you clarify. Also the “second version.”

I am in total agreement with thelo. What God our Father wants, desires & cherishes, He ultimately gets and does indeed occur!


#5

Yes, the first version of Romans 9:22 in your post was this one that you listed at the very top of your post.

“What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction?”

The second version was at the bottom of your post and in blue.

“What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?”

As you can see, they differ importantly in the inclusion of the word although in the second version, but not in the first. The word although means the actions in the clause or phrase it introduces do not occur. If I say, “Although I wanted to rest, I went to the party,” it follows that I did not rest.

Thus, in the first version of Romans 9:22, the meaning is God did show His wrath and make His power known by bearing with great patience the objects of His wrath. Importantly, in the first version, what He was said to be choosing, He did.

But in the second version, the meaning is God did not show His wrath and make His power known. That is, He bore with great patience the objects of His wrath, despite His choosing to show His wrath and make His power known. In contrast, then, in the second version, what He was said to be choosing, He did not do.


#6

Dear Lancia: Much thanks for the clarification.and your excellent post on thelo. If you click on the second quote you will find the translations open up.in comparison.


#7

The 2nd Death

“Orthodox theology holds the second death to be a state of endless torment in which the sufferers are held forever in conscious being by a continuous act of Divine preservation, with the soul object of a punishment without end. This however would in no sense be death. The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit means by ‘fire and brimstone’ is ‘divine purification,’ or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be ‘All in all.’ When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, ‘the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.’ ” -A. E. Saxby

From Him the all, thru Him the all, in Him the all


#8

Question=

Do you think the Master of Reconciliation thinks more highly of broken pieces of fish and bread that nothing be lost/apollumi, but the ones for whom He makes atonement shall be lost?

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexi…/apollumi.html

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes into Him shall not be apollumi…”

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?


#9

Dr. Marvin Vincent

Olethron Aionian

http://www.mercyuponall.org/2016/11/22/marvin-r-vincent-note-on-eternal-destruction-olethron-aionion/

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/aionole.htm


#10

Dear friends: the passage regarding the lost sheep our Master is illustrating in His words of zao Life is so very powerful.

Let’s look at destruction from our Father’s viewpoint.

The plain wording for destruction is apollumi.

Perhaps it would be interesting to behold what apollumi in “plain wording” means?

https://www.logosapostolic.org/greek…stroy-ruin.htm

"What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he apollumi one of them, does not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is apollumi, until he find it?

“For as many as have sinned without law shall also apollumi without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law…”

“Do not labor for the meat which apollumi, but for that meat which endures to everlasting life…”

"But if your brother is grieved with your meat, now do you not walk charitably. Do not apollumi him with your meat, for whom Christ died.

“He who loves his life shall apollumi it; and he who hates his life in this world shall keep it to life eternal.”


#11

The punishment of the Father of all fathers is not merely correction: it is correction that improves, changes, transforms for the better.

Our God punishes with an objective in view, not as an end in itself!

There are dual aspects to our Father’s Realm as shown in the following…

Tamiym/ 'ymt means to be consumed, destroyed, exhausted and spent, but also to be finished and made sound.

Kalal has the same meaning, linking destruction, being spent, exhausted, as well as to be finished and made sound.

Tamam, the root word of Tamiym means to be finished, complete, summed up, made whole: linked with to be consumed, exhausted, spent and destroyed.

Shalam/ ~IX, another expression of destruction, has the scope of being finished and ended, made good or whole, & being made sound, coupled with to be restored.

Shebar, rooted in Shabar, means breakout, and being brought to birth; and underlying new birth and breakout? To be crushed and broken. Again there is dual meaning in our Lord’s words of destruction and re-creation.

Chalowph

The destructive Hebrew word Chalowph is rooted in being altered, renewed, changed, and to sprout again. It should also be noted that this is not just change, but change for the better.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

It is becoming clear to me after following the Living One for these past 60 years how slow I am. The outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown is beginning to break upon my poor thick being. I do trust each of us as we are caught up into Him will find many stars and galaxies breaking from single points of light in His heavens. What a wonderful journey this is!