The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Professor Ilaria Ramelli & her Apokatastasis project

Slow progress for me but hoping to read more over the Christmas break…

Dear Jason and Alex,

Although I’m almost completely silent nowadays, please add my word of encouragement to that of the others.

id est: Looking forward to more info from you on this thread!!


Things are very busy here at work at the end of the year (plus various Christmassy things), and I’ve developed an increasingly shocking cold, so I’m not doing much on the forum right now, including writing up my notes on Dr. R’s chapter/sections.

Don’t be too surprised if I’m off-forum until after the start of next year!

Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better, Jason. We’ll miss you here on the forum.

So did you finish the book? Was there ever a summary written? (The suspense is tangible :wink: )

I second that!
Jason & Alex, those of us too poor, are longing for your reviews!!

Yes, I finished the book around Christmas. I started collating a summary, and then decided I wanted to collate a macro-summary including Beecher, Allin, and Hanson, too, which would also serve the purpose of cross-checking what they’ve said against what Dr. R said (since she’s more detailed). Beecher is done, but I haven’t gotten around to working on the next step yet, mainly due to year-end (and overlapping year-start) busyness at work and researching games for my little nieces since they loved my Christmas gifts. :slight_smile:

I’m sorry this is taking so long. I’ll try to be better about proceeding with the collation.

(When I do start posting it up, I’ll doubtless create a new thread for collecting the data in more-or-less chronological order.)

Wow. A comparison with Beecher, Allin and Hanson goes way beyond the call of “duty.” Thanks so much Jason! I have a feeling this is going to be well worth the wait.

…as I craawwwwwllll slowly toward that. :wink:

Had to finish closing out the company’s year today, so no further work on it yet. I anticipate being able to start back on it next week.

Keep going Jason … There was a super short summary in EU Fbook posted by someone, and it is tantalising - universalism part of early church, never a heresy, Augustine used to be strong universalist etc.

Does anyone know what Professor Ramelli has to say about Maximos the Confessor? :slight_smile:

Lots and lots. He’s definitely one of the main Christian universalists of his period.

Aha :bulb:

Indeed; he was also an early proponent of ‘negative theology’, so he’s one of those people Dr. McClymond would regard as too mystical and spiritual in a doctrinally mushy way. (Though Maximus himself wasn’t doctrinally mushy at all, but the negative theology approach could and often does easily lead to that.)

This sounds like a really exciting and interesting book, though having looked it up on Amazon (at least the UK Amazon here) it’s a little outside (or allot lol) my price range at £207.49 - $347.40 - though there was a slightly cheaper version at £192 after postage, however either way I don’t think I’ll have the chance to read it to soon. Still it looks like a major piece of research that is going to have (if it isn’t already) a major impact in both patristic and for that matter historical understanding of the world-views of late antiquity as relates to early Christianity.

Every tidbit I get to read is very provocative, especially learning that Ireneas was a universalist (excluding the angels). I reread some of his large work against heresies and I saw it in there very clearly (probably its ignored because of the passages dealing with “eternal punishment” and where he discusses annihilation [apparently of only the fallen angels?]). Can’t wait to read your summary Jason :slight_smile:

Hi Jason,

Lots of interest in the findings :slight_smile:

Any chance (no rush) of you putting together a few bios and quotes for the EU name list - the Early Church is pretty sketchy on that list, it would be great to get some decent names and info up there.

I’m planning on requesting it at my local library - but first I have to find library ticket, it could take a while.


Thanks for the interest, guys; I’m sorry it’s taking so long!

Once I’ve finished compiling (what I think are) the best patristic evidence from Allin and Hanson (I’ve already done Beecher), I’ll start over again adding in Dr. R’s far more detailed notes; and then along the way I’ll produce the contents summary.

Jason, that would be great!
Looking forward it.