Aye, you’re right bro, we should be open about this kind of thing, but then how open is another question…
Like Sobernost, I have some of that old-world ‘be a gentleman with the ladies’ mentality in me 
But, on the other hand, like yourself, I believe in free speech, and I know women (especially those who are mothers) are as tough as men, tougher even, and can more likely than not handle whatever I’m saying.
Ah, balance is a hard thing to find sometimes 
Dear guys
I appreciate the sentiment. I always appreciate your gentlemanly ways dear sobernost. But really, us women are not delicate flowers who cannot bear to hear about a male sexual perspective. I for one find it refreshing to hear how my brothers are neither the stereotypical, repressed, church going anorak; nor the worldly male stereotype, where all guys are portrayed as objectifying women and caring nothing for us as people. Truly, it is good to hear what makes you tick.
And just so you know:the conversations women have amongst themselves are often much more detailed than guy discussions. I know my friendship group discusses everything, in a manner you might consider to explicit. But for us it’s helpful, freeing and at times, downright hilarious. We females have desires too my brothers. And the 12 letter M word is definitely applicable to girls, elsewise a certain retail chain Anne summers wouldn’t exist. The depths of female sexuality might surprise you.
So whilst no one wants to read anything pornographic (and I’m sure my brothers wouldn’t write that anyway), please don’t feel the need to protect our delicate sensibilities. We are not little girls but red blooded, full hearted women.
I wasn’t protecting your delicate sensibilites Jael me dear 
Dear Jael –
Just in case the feeling is more widespread about my post here and I may have given offence to some, my concern was only for my friend Puddy here because I had a strong hunch (and i think it was a well informed hunch) that he might be just on the verge of getting into deep waters in this conversation. I wasn’t remotely angry with him nor did I feel shocked. I was really only concerned that someone might intervene thundering at him with biblical texts at some point – which would have been completely inappropriate and, from what I know of my friend, would have grieved his heart terribly. It might seem that the conversation had a stark ending but we actually made up completely the next day on Puddy’s Introduction thread.
My comment about Cindy and Kelli being pushed to the outside in this conversation? Well I do have a bit of the old fashioned gentleman in me – but Kelli and Cindy are not easily shocked and I didn’t need to stick up for them, and really wasn’t doing so!!! My point about them still begin present was fair – because it had been forgotten momentarily. And I just know that my point about private and public s right – we can have a chat about this sometime; it’s not a moralistic point - it’s about safety and how to negotiate safe space.
And I don’t need to stick up for you Jael – I know that well. I’m feeling kind of tent pegged in the head at the moment 
. We need that pint and a pie! 
Love ya my bonnie sister
Dick
Oh and by the way Jael – my hunches here are 'old hand in community education’ hunches, rather than hunches informed by a ‘superior gnosis most patriological in every way’.
Jael, I appreciate your comments.
No doubt women are far less different than a lot of guys would imagine when it comes to sex.
But to be honest, I do wrestle a lot with a tendency to objectify women in my mind, which I’m constantly having to battle against, and likely because of my lifelong struggle with pornography.
There is that animal part of me that sees an attractive woman and just sees something desirable, or on the basest level, a toy to be played with. 
But then there is that higher part of me, Christ in me, or God’s Spirit, maybe, not sure, that sees, or tries to see, something more, a daughter, a sister, a person, a human being, tries to look beyond the flesh and blood exterior and imagine the soul beneath… it’s far from easy and a constant battle. It’s difficult to not objectify women in your mind in some way when you live in a culture where women are often blatantly objectified, and some women even seem to objectify themselves… of course, this is no excuse though…
I’ve prayed over and over for God to work in my heart and my mind, to help me to look beyond appearances to the heart, and to love rather than lust… maybe He’s been working inside of me over the years and I just don’t know it, but sometimes it seems like I’ll never be entirely free of this weakness of mine.
Free from things like pornography, free from guilt and shame, from fear and anxiety, concerning my own sexuality…
I can only hope that one day I will be. In the meantime all I can do is keep going, getting back up every time I stumble or fall down, in the hopes that one day things will be different, and I won’t have to wrestle with any of this anymore.
I am looking forward to getting married, and whenever that happens, I hope that with Kaylyn, my wife to be, I can enjoy physical intimacy without shame or fear, and for the first time.
That certainly sounds wonderful to a guy who’s felt bad or at least uncertain deep down about sexual matters in one way or another for most of his life, I’ll say.
Anyways, I think this is a good discussion, and I appreciate you guys not minding my opening up as I do.
It does help a little to get this sort of thing off my chest.
Blessings to you
Matt
love ya Matt
Love ya too bro
Here is some interesting info.
Promise Keepers took a survey. 50 thousand men responded, and half of them admitted to looking at porn the week before the event.
Christianity today gave a poll in which 1/3 of pastors said they have visited explicit websites.
Martin Luther was regarded as ‘the sex-devil incarnate’ Here is his advice to married couples
A week two
Is the woman’s due.
Harms neither me nor you,
Makes in a year, twice fifty two.
This was probably what he considered the minimum. Smart guy considering the statists mentioned above. He said this concerning chastity vows. “Nature does not cease to do its work when there is voluntary chastity … To put it bluntly, seed … if it does not flow into the flesh will flow into the nightshirt”