The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Question about Greek of 2 Corinthians 5:14

,"]OK people who know Greek better than me (eg Joe Wee, Robyn Campbell, Kutz Kutuzov, Jeremy Nicholas Wales, Wesley Redgen, pretty much anyone who has done any Greek ever)…

Is there any reason to automatically assume that the adjective (one man) in 2 Corinthians 5:14 refers to Jesus, rather than Adam? If Paul is making a comparison between Jesus and Adam like he often does, then 15 makes better sense, and the logic of 14 is less universalist. I can’t find anybody (I haven’t started looking all that hard yet) who doesn’t just assume it is talking about Jesus.

Here’s the NIV rendering… I think the switch from the non-specific “one man” to the specific pronoun (he - though the first he comes in the verb) supports my reading.

14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.Can anyone help? (I’ve been trying to convince him of EU but no luck so far…)

Well I wouldn’t “automatically assume” anything. :wink:

But supposing verse 14 actually meant that Adam died (“FOR ALL”!!!–making the choice of sin on behalf of all human descendants on this theory I guess) and therefore all died, verse 15 still must refer to Christ dying for all, unless Adam died so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Adam who died for them and was raised again. :unamused:

It isn’t a Greek grammar issue. It’s a thematic context issue.

Be that as it may, the grammar is parallel between the two verses, and the verb in verse 15 points back to the pronoun in verse 14:

{heis huper pantôn apethanen} one over all he-away-died
{huper pantôn apethanen} over all he-away-died

The “he” in “he died” is implied by the verb form in both verses. In verse 14 there is also a pronoun for the verb, “one” (masculine to match the verb), but since neither verb actually requires a noun or pronoun, unless there are clear reasons to think otherwise the parallel phraseology would connect verse 15’s clause back to the subject of the prior clause, the “one” who from-died over all.

But none of that really matters: unless we are supposed to be putting our faith in Adam for eternal life, verse 15 is about Christ (as no one I’ve ever read or heard of disputes), and verse 15 is thus clear that Christ died away (i.e. into hades) and was raised over all.

Thus, even if we interpret {huper} (i.e. “hyper”) as meaning “over” instead of “for the sake of” (which is possible), we have the following statement regardless of verse 14 (which changes nothing in this regard):

“He died-away over all so-that the living-ones should by no means still be living to themselves but to the one dying-away and being raised over them.”

This does allow a Calvinist or Arminian interpretation (as well as universalist), however, if {huper} is interpreted as an authority reference (“over X”) rather than an intentional reference (“for the sake of X”), the latter of which I doubt a Calvinist could accept: all three Christian soteriologies agree (at least nominally) that Christ dies and lives in authority over all, and that all have died, and that Christ’s goal was so that those who have died whom He makes live (in whatever sense that may mean) will no longer live for themselves but for the One who died and lived for them.

If “for sake of” is acknowledged to be the proper interpretation (although I don’t know any immediate grounds for saying so, but neither for it only meaning an authoritative “over” either), the verse probably couldn’t fit Calv soteriology, but it might still fit Arm: there is nothing here speaking of the certainty of Christ’s success in bringing those He chooses to live back to loyalty to Himself rather than continuing rebellion. I don’t see anything in the nearby context to point that way either.

(Obviously I find plenty of places elsewhere pointing to that, just not nearby here. The nearby subsequent verses 18-21 about God reconciling the world to Himself wouldn’t fit Calv soteriology, and might be grounds for interpreting {huper} earlier to mean “for the sake of” without losing the authority implied; but again there is nothing there about the certainty of Christ accomplishing this reconciliation. On the contrary, Paul goes on to warn the Corinthians in the next verse 6:1, not to receive the grace of Christ for nothing! Then again, to believe that some may finally receive the grace of Christ for nothing, or that the grace of Christ may not accomplish reconciliation sooner or later “for the world”, might be tantamount to regarding if not receiving the grace of Christ as being vain!–which we have certainly been warned about doing elsewhere! :wink: )

Jason is correct in his explanation of the Greek.
But I’m curious, Alex. Where do you get the “one man” in 2 Cor 5:14? I have not found it in ANY translation (except in the “The Message”, but that can be discounted since “The Message” does not count as a translation. Indeed, in my opinion it is a poor paraphrase).

I didn’t notice it before, but now I am wondering why virtually all translations render the verb “ἀπεθανεν” 3rd person singular, 2nd aorist active indicative of a verb that means “to die” is translated as “one died” in verse 14, but “he died” in verse 15. Why not “he died” in both verses? the verb is identical. I am wondering what motivated the translators to render the verb as “one died” in verse 14. The only thing I can think of, is that in verse 14, they wanted a word to contrast with “all” and so chose “one” instead of “he”.

What do you think, Jason?