The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Relativity of the Perception of Truth

Theology Philosophical
#1

I’ve never believed that truth itself is relative or subjective, but I’ve often wondered if human perception of truth very well can be. Thoughts on this?

"…the God of the Bible is a God who delights in hope, and who does not frown upon it or silence it. I do not mean to suggest that we can hope things and thus make them true, but I do mean to say that often our hearts are far beyond our heads—that our hearts may be correct in believing something that our intellect completely fails to grasp. God sees the hearts of his children, and cares very little for their shallow, mental understanding of him. Any theology or doctrine that elevates the head above the heart—that emphasizes understanding God over trusting in him—has completely missed its purpose and become a powerful tool of the devil.

Imagine two Christians: one of whom believes firmly in the concept of Hell as eternal conscious torment of sinners, and one of whom believes just as firmly that all men should ultimately come to the truth and enter the city of Heaven. Both men see Scripture as evidence in support, primarily, of their own view. The first man likely believes what he does out of a zeal for justice. He longs for justice, and sees eternal conscious torment as the most grounded and sure means of justice being served. The second believes what he does out of a deep longing for mercy. He sees universalism as the most merciful interpretation of his Father, and so clings to it. Both men would, in a sense much deeper than any theology, believe truly. The first man doesn’t so much believe in any doctrine regarding Hell as he does believe that his God is just. The second cares less for theology than he does that his God is merciful. Is God not infinitely just, as well as infinitely merciful? both men believe in the same God, and both men believe truly. The Lord tells us he sees the heart, and yet we would expect him to merely see the mind.

Again, I’m not suggesting that whatever our hopes lead us to must be the truth—I am, however, suggesting that truth and falsity will forever be a matter of the heart, not of any doctrine. The heart that longs for God is the heart that most understands truth, however ridiculous, fallacious, and heretical his theology may be. Likewise, the heart that fails to love and search for God intently has little to no understanding of truth, no matter how accurate his actual beliefs are regarding the Lord.

We have a horribly low view of truth, and consequently of our God. We speak of him and his ways in figures and ideologies that are all imperfect, and all misleading in and of themselves. I do not believe that the Father has ever much cared for* belief*; he has cared for faith. To represent these two concepts as meaning the same thing would be to miss the message of the Gospels."

Comments? disagreements? agreements? etc.

#2

Great question. The answer is above my head, and perhaps even my heart. I am writing so I’ll get notifications when others weigh in.

#3

Thanks, I appreciate that. No other input?

#4

I think you’re right in that it is human perception of truth that is relative. Jesus is the truth. “Thy word is truth” Jesus is the “word made flesh” the word of God, etc. Truth does not change as God does not vhange. Our perception of the truth is constantly changing. After 40 years of being a christian, I know that my perception of what was true changed with my perception or idea of God/Christ. As I’ve said in another UR forum, "God is love, it’s who he is, it’s what he does. My perception of God requires ultimate reconciliation of **all **rather than psychotic, sadistic torture of most."

#5

I think the point is that two people can hold differing ideas which are in a sense “true” unless there is some objective reality for them to be true about. Then one or both have to be false.

#6

As like so many things, balance is important. It seems what we believe brings about what we do. Therefore, while I sympathize with your point, it seems still true that if we believe in him we shall have eternal life. If we continue to follow the ways of the world (murder, thieves, deceit, arrogance) then we do not believe. So our doctrine is important as Paul writes "watch your doctrine and life closely).

For if our doctrine teaches us to love no one but ourselves, and we believe it, we are in great trouble.

But if we are fully convinced that love, justice and mercy are valuable, then we shall follow it and our rewards shall be great.

Which ever we believe is where our hearts lie.

At least that’s the way it seems to me.

#7

I think it’s interesting to note that justice and mercy aren’t as far apart as we might immediately think. I was surprised to learn that the word often rendered as justice in the Septuagint (more or less) is also often rendered as mercy. As though the same word could be used to express either concept.

Joseph, the husband of Mary, is said in some translations to have been a “just” man and unwilling to expose her to public shame (read execution) and so resolved to put her away quietly when he learned she was pregnant. Yet if, as he reasonably supposed, she had been unfaithful to him, wouldn’t it be “just” for her to face “justice?” Apparently some translators thought so, because they rendered the same word as “kind.” It’s interesting how scripture has often been “adjusted” in translation to make it “make sense” for this or that doctrine.

But I would say that the truth is the truth and however far from it we may be, it behooves us to seek it (Him) with all our hearts. Our ideas about who God is are important. I believe a true person seeking the true God will most certainly find Him, for “you shall seek Me and you shall find Me when you shall search for Me with all your hearts.” As we truly seek Him, He reveals Himself more and more to us. Eventually, we will see Him as He truly is, and imo the sooner we come closer to this ultimate goal, the better. It is better to know what gold looks like (if you’re hunting gold) than to think it looks like obsidian. You’re more likely to recognize it when you see it. If you bring obsidian into the assayer’s office, he’s not going to ask you how truly and fervently you believe it to be gold.

It’s important to know. Yes, God is just and merciful to forgive us of all our sins (when we confess them) and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Let me translate that into easier terms: God is just (kind) and merciful (kind) to forgive us from all our sins (missing the mark, missing the point, getting “it” wrong) when we confess them to be sins (we acknowledge that yeah, we got it wrong – well, we’d have to, wouldn’t we, in order for us to be willing to repent – change our minds/direction of travel) and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (that is, to reconcile us to Himself and put us on the right track – just as soon as we are willing to receive this guidance and restoration from His hand).

#8

Frankly, I believe we’re all a mess, all have wrong beliefs, perceptions of reality, truth, and God. We each have different and very limited knowledge, experiences, perception and understanding. I was raised in a fellowship that seemed to think they were the only ones who truly followed God and were truly faithful to scripture. We were not to sure we were saved, but we were pretty sure everyone else not part of our little group wasn’t. Over the years, with increased education, experience, and exposure to others of differing beliefs, I’ve grown to have more faith in God and less faith in my own understanding. Doesn’t scripture affirm that we should “trust in the Lord with all of our hearts and rely not upon our own understanding.” It’s also interesting that Jesus said that you would know or recognize his followers by their love for one another, not their adherance to a specific set of beliefs or doctrines.

#9

I would go ever further, Chris, and say that the Father doesn’t care much for faith either, except inasmuch as it prompts us to action.

I believe that we are all, and always have been, ‘saved’ by and through Christ’s atoning life, death and resurrection. At bottom, we are saved by the faith *of *Christ, not our faith *in *Christ. This is a done deal, and our personal faith is irrelevant to the reality of that salvation.

However, once we learn about that salvation and respond to it in faith, the often slow, painful and recidivism-strewn pathway of sanctification opens before us - or at least, we see it at our feet as we hadn’t done before. Faith without works and all that :slight_smile: .

I find the orthodox Christian notion that we are born doomed to eternal torture or destruction, a fate which we can only avoid by consciously assenting to a particular set of beliefs or doctrinal formulae, quite incredible. I am much more comfortable with the notion that salvation is something we are born into which we can effectively ‘opt out of’ by a deliberate, rational and persistent refusal of grace. But as a Universalist I do not think this is ultimately a realistic option for anybody. God’s mercy, patience and resourcefulness are infinite :smiley: .

All the best

Johnny