The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Rob Bell a universalist?

Evangelical Universalism
#21

hehehe. :mrgreen: Nice job.

And, Mark Driscoll named his church that for the very same reason three years earlier. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Hill_ … arly_years

I doubt Rob Bell copied him, though. It doesn’t seem his style. And besides, at the time Mars Hill was still relatively obscure - it started very small and they were meeting in homes for awhile, and then migrated from one run-down church to another.

I absolutely love Mark Driscoll’s message of inclusivity and diatribes against Pharisaism:

But he still speaks of “eternal” punishment, and I know he doesn’t mean anything different from what’s traditionally taught. :neutral_face:

#22

So Driscoll beat him to it. I imagine you are probably right that Driscoll’s church was probably small and he wasn’t aware any one else had the name.

#23

Rob said:
“When people say that the authority of Scripture or the centrality of Jesus is in question, actually it’s their social, economic and political system that has been built in the name of Jesus that’s being threatened.”

Isn’t that a bit presumptuous to claim this? Why couldn’t it be just that these folks have different beliefs that Rob?

#24

Very exciting find Amy! It’s a shame there are two Mars Hills, as that is confusing :confused:

I assume it would be very hard to talk to Driscoll. I can only hope and prayer that my friend, who is also a friend of Driscoll’s, becomes a EU! Sadly, that’s pretty unlikely as he was disappointed to just hear I was looking at UR again.

#25

Alex, it’s unclear if you might be thinking Driscoll is an EU? It’s Bell that is making these universalist statements. Maybe that’s who you were referring to? Justin, Stellar Renegade, was saying he’d attended Driscoll’s church and he definiely believes in traditional hell. Sorry to hear about your friend being disappointed. I think that’s the reaction most of us get from the majority of people, unfortunately. :confused:

#26

Interesting to hear you attend Driscolls church… I’ve been reading lately into the accusations of heresy that Driscoll and other church leaders make against Rob Bell, (and the whole emerging church movement for that matter). I think one of the serious problems they have are his universalist tendancies.

There has been a lot of this on youtube as well (e.g. youtube.com/watch?v=1jYHhKa81Ds )

I disagree with a lot of the accusations leveled against him on the grounds that a lot of it seems to be based on taking what he has said completely out of context. Of course I love the fact that people label him a heretic because of his universalist tendancies and also the fact that he believes we came from cave people!!! Scandalous!! :smiling_imp: :mrgreen:

#27

Isn’t he using an “ad hominem” argument here?
By the way, the reason you guys don’t agree with me is because of your political beliefs!

#28

Reminds me of Beth Moore. :wink:

Which in turn reminds me that I’ve narrowed down that weird statement from her to a study she wrote on Romans. Must try to hunt that down further one of these days…

Updated to add: yes, I agree about his ad homming of the opposition, reducing their opposition to non-religious factors. Good call Roofus.

#29

Would anyone less lazy and/or with less of a headache this afternoon than me, care to hop over to Robin’s TEU book on Amazon, and use the Search Inside the Book feature to check references for “Bell”?

The reason I ask, is that back when this topic first came up I remarked (apparently because I had been doing a search through TEU for some other purpose at the time) that there was some guy named “Bell” whom Robin mentioned in his footnotes occasionally, who Robin treated as a universalist.

#30

That would be a “Richard Bell.”

#31

Just watched some of the video of Rob Bell and, from the little I’ve seen of him, I really like him! I watched a video of him talking about the resurrection. In it he highlights that Jesus seems destroyed, but he promises he’ll be raised. At the end he says something about when all is destroyed God can raise it up! Love it!!! The video was unique in it’s presentation.

In another video he talked about being labeled emerging, a label he does not give himself. He said that labels often divide, he wants people to join together to follow Christ, and that we should all constantly be asking the important questions and trying to communicate Jesus in a way that is relevant to our world. In yet another video he talked about having boundries and observing a sabbath to rest and remember that God is the creator,not himself.

#32

Jason, the Richard Bell often cited in universalist discussions condensed his dissertation into a seminal article, “Romans 5:18-19 and Universal Salvation,” in “New Testament Studies,” 2002, pages 417-32. He argues for the universal promise of justification in Romans 5, similar to Talbott or Parry’s exegesis. But I think no genetic relation to Rob Bell!

#33

Found this quote from Rob Bell that seems to characterize how he feels about things…

“If the gospel isn’t good news for everybody, then it isn’t good news for anybody. And this is because the most powerful things happen when the church surrenders its desire to convert people and convince them to join. It is when the church gives itself away in radical acts of service and compassion, expecting nothing in return, that the way of Jesus is most vividly put on display. To do this, the church must stop thinking about everybody primarily in categories of in or out, saved or not, believer or nonbeliever. Besides the fact that these terms are offensive to those who are the “un” and “non”, they work against Jesus’ teachings about how we are to treat each other. Jesus commanded us to love our neighbor, and our neighbor can be anybody. We are all created in the image of God, and we are all sacred, valuable creations of God. Everybody matters. To treat people differently based on who believes what is to fail to respect the image of God in everyone. As the book of James says, “God shows no favoritism.” So we don’t either.”
— Rob Bell

#34

I like that! Just how good can the good news be if it only means you have been reconciled while most of humanity incuding many of your friends and family have a death sentance hanging over their heads. That would make me want to cry, not rejoice!

#35

Thanks for taking the time to observe such!
Maybe he is staying quiet because of his political and social conditioning? Oh, I must stop!

#36

Very cool news. So encouraging!

By the way, open theist Greg Boyd was invited to speak up at Bell’s place not long ago. Hmmm.

I’m just saying… :unamused:

Tom

#37

Thanks, you and Sonia both!

Maybe we should hunt up Richard and invite him to join as a guest author…?

#38

This is a link to some quotes from Rob Bell…(from someone critical of his teaching): speakupalittle.files.wordpress.c … eology.pdf

One in particular, about hell, he says, "“When people use the word hell, what do they mean? They mean a place, an
event, a situation absent of how God desires things to be. Famine, debt,
oppression, loneliness, despair, death, slaughter–they are all hell on earth.
Jesus’ desire for his followers is that they live in such a way that they bring
heaven to earth. What’s disturbing is when people talk more about hell after this
life than they do about Hell here and now. As a Christian, I want to do what I can
to resist hell coming to earth.” -p. 148