Rob Bell a universalist?

[denver]

I’ve read lots of critics who accuse Rob Bell of being a universalist. Does anyone know more about this? Is this just people looking for something to criticize? I’d honestly love it if he was because I love his work and perspectives. I know this is sort of ‘celebrity-hunt’ stuff like “Is Bob Dylan still a Christian?” I know it doesn’t really change the truth. Still, I’m curious.

Denver.

Oh, btw I do think Dylan is still a Christian…but that’s a discussion for another time!

[JasonPratt]

I don’t even know who Rob Bell is. Sorry.

There’s a modern theologian named Bell who is certainly a universalist of some sort; but I don’t recall offhand what his first name is. (Gregory sometimes references him in the footnotes of TEU.)

[denver]

Sorry I didn’t explain. Rob Bell is a very popular evangelical author and pastor in the U.S. He is the pastor of Mars Hill Church, one of the fatest growing churches in American history. He is the author of several books, in particular Velvet Elvis: Rethinking the Christian Faith. He also produced the widely-used spiritual short films called NOOMA used by many churches.

I suppose he would be associated with the Emerging Church movement, though I don’t think he subscribes to that title.

Denver

[auggybendoggy]

Isn’t Rob Bell the guy involved with the Emerging church?

Aug

[stellar_renegade]

Sorry I didn’t explain. Rob Bell is a very popular evangelical author and pastor in the U.S. He is the pastor of Mars Hill Church, one of the fatest growing churches in American history. He is the author of several books, in particular Velvet Elvis: Rethinking the Christian Faith. He also produced the widely-used spiritual short films called NOOMA used by many churches.

I suppose he would be associated with the Emerging Church movement, though I don’t think he subscribes to that title.

Denver

Interesting. Mark Driscoll is also the pastor of a Mars Hill church growing very rapidly in the city of Seattle, and describes himself as post-emerging missional.

He’s not a universalist, though, but he has a pretty neat thing going on. I was going to his church for a little while.

[Aceofspades25]

I’ve also been interested in finding this out for a while now. I loved his book Velvet Elvis, and his Nooma videos are great. I’ve always thought he’s been inclined towards universalism, with his honesty about how christians can’t claim to have all the answers.

Although he hates labels, and would probably never give himself this label. It now appears he is one.

This book “Love wins” is set to be realeased in April this year. It is already available on pre-order through Amazon

I think this book is going to be a huge boon for the Universalist movement. Most christians I speak to haven’t heard of universalism, (including a leader of a 3000+ church my father recently spoke to). Rob Bell is easily in the top 10 list of the most widely read christian authors that are current. I think we’re in for some interesting debate as this doctrine begins to go mainstream.

[SLJ]

Interesting, I hadn’t heard of Rob Bell before.

The blurb about the book says:

In Love Wins, Bell goes to the heart of these issues and argues that the church’s traditional understanding of heaven and hell is actually not taught by the Bible. Bell is emphatically not offering a new view of heaven and hell; instead, he closely examines every verse in the Bible on heaven and hell and shows what they really teach. And he discovers that Jesus’s most fundamental teaching about heaven and hell is, “Love wins.”

It seems contradictory to say that the traditional understanding of heaven and Hell is not taught by the Bible, and then say that he’s not offering a new view of heaven and hell. LOL I guess we’ll have to wait till the book is released to find out how that works!

Sonia

[JasonPratt]

Vewwwwwwwy interesting… We may need to invite him to be a guest author?

It seems contradictory to say that the traditional understanding of heaven and Hell is not taught by the Bible, and then say that he’s not offering a new view of heaven and hell. LOL I guess we’ll have to wait till the book is released to find out how that works!

Most likely he means he’s offering the “old” view of heaven and hell “taught by the Bible”, unlike the traditional understanding.

[amy]

Aceofspades25 said…I think this book is going to be a huge boon for the Universalist movement. Most christians I speak to haven’t heard of universalism, (including a leader of a 3000+ church my father recently spoke to). Rob Bell is easily in the top 10 list of the most widely read christian authors that are current. I think we’re in for some interesting debate as this doctrine begins to go mainstream.

Yes! Looking forward to this!

Pratt said…
Vewwwwwwwy interesting… We may need to invite him to be a guest author?

I agree, let’s invite him!

Found this interesting on wikipedia…en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Bell

About Bell’s beliefs…
In his writings, Bell affirms things as truth regardless of the source, saying “I affirm the truth anywhere in any religious system, in any worldview. If it’s true, it belongs to God.”[11] However, he acknowledges Scripture as the authoritative source of truth by which to compare all other truths in the Mars Hill Bible Church statement of narrative theology.[12]

Bell says, “This is not just the same old message with new methods. We’re rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don’t deliver a way of life. We grew up in churches where people knew the nine verses why we don’t speak in tongues, but had never experienced the overwhelming presence of God.”[6]

I think he is a kindred spirit with many of us here that feel like we’re rediscovering Christianity, the way it really is. And I happen to agree with him that truth can be anywhere and it all belongs to God.

About cricism he says…
“When people say that the authority of Scripture or the centrality of Jesus is in question, actually it’s their social, economic and political system that has been built in the name of Jesus that’s being threatened.”

If he can make time for us, I think he’d be one open to discussion.

[amy]

Just found this on their church site about requests…

We’re honored with your request; however, the increasingly high volume of requests for Rob has made it extremely difficult for him or us to respond to all of them.

Doesn’t look likely he’ll have time for us.

[amy]

Also found this description of Mar’s Hill Church’s theology. They put it in the form of a narrative, which I like. This statement came first…

When we put to words what we believe about God, we discover that he has been writing a story of hope and redemption for all the world. His story is a movement from creation to new creation, and he has given us a role to play in that story, in the restoration of our relationships with God, each other, ourselves, and creation.

And found this under their values (Journey): …marshill.org/believe/directions/
We have great confidence that God will restore all of creation under the authority of Christ. We believe that every church has to ask the question: “What does it look like for us to live out that future reality today?” We are constantly exploring, questioning, and wrestling with new and creative ways to live out and communicate the teachings of Jesus. Because we see faith as a journey, change is assumed, innovation is expected, and rebirth is welcomed.

Seems like a universalist to me! I suppose he could have said hell is redemptive, but with such silence on hell’s function and the admission that God reconciles all things, I’m pretty sure what we have on our hands here folks. He couldn’t convince me he’s not with us. I’m usually so leary of mega churches, but I’m ready to jump on board! What do you guys think?

This is the narrative that followed…on their site…marshill.org/believe/

We believe God inspired the authors of Scripture by his Spirit to speak to all generations of believers, including us today. God calls us to immerse ourselves in this authoritative narrative communally and individually to faithfully interpret and live out that story today as we are led by the Spirit of God.

In the beginning God created all things good. He was and always will be in a communal relationship with himself-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God created us to be relational as well and marked us with an identity as his image bearers and a missional calling to serve, care for, and cultivate the earth. God created humans in his image to live in fellowship with him, one another, our inner self, and creation. The enemy tempted the first humans, and darkness and evil entered the story through human sin and are now a part of the world. This devastating event resulted in our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation being fractured and in desperate need of redeeming.

We believe God did not abandon his creation to destruction and decay; rather he promised to restore this broken world. As part of this purpose, God chose a people, Abraham and his descendants, to represent him in the world. God promised to bless them as a nation so that through them all nations would be blessed. In time they became enslaved in Egypt and cried out to God because of their oppression. God heard their cry, liberated them from their oppressor, and brought them to Sinai where he gave them an identity and a mission as his treasured possession, a kingdom of priests, a holy people. Throughout the story of Israel, God refused to give up on his people despite their frequent acts of unfaithfulness to him.

God brought his people into the Promised Land. Their state of blessing from God was intimately bound to their calling to embody the living God to other nations. They made movement toward this missional calling, yet they disobeyed and allowed foreign gods into the land, overlooked the poor, and mistreated the foreigner. The prophetic voices that emerge from the Scriptures held the calling of Israel to the mirror of how they treated the oppressed and marginalized. Through the prophets, God’s heart for the poor was made known, and we believe that God cares deeply for the marginalized and oppressed among us today.

In Israel’s disobedience, they became indifferent and in turn irrelevant to the purposes to which God had called them. For a time, they were sent into exile; yet a hopeful remnant was always looking ahead with longing and hope to a renewed reign of God, where peace and justice would prevail.

We believe these longings found their fulfillment in Jesus the Messiah, conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin, mysteriously God having become flesh. Jesus came to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and set captives free, proclaiming a new arrival of the kingdom of God, bringing about a new exodus, and restoring our fractured world. He and his message were rejected by many as he confronted the oppressive nature of the religious elite and the empire of Rome. Yet his path of suffering, crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection has brought hope to all creation. Jesus is our only hope for bringing peace and reconciliation between God and humans. Through Jesus we have been forgiven and brought into right relationship with God. God is now reconciling us to each other, ourselves, and creation. The Spirit of God affirms as children of God all those who trust Jesus. The Spirit empowers us with gifts, convicts, guides, comforts, counsels, and leads us into truth through a communal life of worship and a missional expression of our faith. The church is rooted and grounded in Christ, practicing spiritual disciplines and celebrating baptism and the Lord’s Supper. The church is a global and local expression of living out the way of Jesus through love, peace, sacrifice, and healing as we embody the resurrected Christ, who lives in and through us, to a broken and hurting world.

We believe the day is coming when Jesus will return to judge the world, bringing an end to injustice and restoring all things to God’s original intent. God will reclaim this world and rule forever. The earth’s groaning will cease and God will dwell with us here in a restored creation. On that day we will beat swords into tools for cultivating the earth, the wolf will lie down with the lamb, there will be no more death, and God will wipe away all our tears. Our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation will be whole. All will flourish as God intends. This is what we long for. This is what we hope for. And we are giving our lives to living out that future reality now.

[JasonPratt]

Holy Christ. Are they really a (trinitarian) universalistic congregation???

Sure does look like it…

Updated to add: whether or not he is, I have to say I love his narrative credo approach. A great Biblical form to it, very reminiscent of OT prophets and NT apostolic preaching, which often featured similar narrative proclamations of faith.

[stellar_renegade]

Yeah, I take a narrative approach, too. Don’t have time to read that yet, though it looks good.

Rob Bell is just an open-ended type of guy. Makes it kinda difficult that both the church I go to (spread out over several campuses) and his are called Mars Hill Church. Not sure how that happened. But the preaching pastor here, Mark Driscoll’s fairly well known, too. He’s more Reformed, though, and takes a slightly disparaging view toward Rob Bell (though not completely, from memory - but it’s been awhile since I heard/read anything about that).

Not that I carry that attitude. I know very little about him, but I did love the video I saw awhile back at a convention where he likened God to a parent carrying his kid in the rain on his back. I think this guy’s got alot of good heart.

[amy]

Jason said…Holy Christ. Are they really a (trinitarian) universalistic congregation???

Sure does look like it…

When it hit me I was jumping out of my chair! (Actually I didn’t want to get too excited because I thought my eyes could be deceiving me. Seemed too good to be true.) It’s a mega universalistic congregation, of all things, which means our numbers just jumped WAY, WAY up! Would it still be mega if he drops I’m an evangelical universalist bomb? Maybe he’s the smart one for staying so quiet? He doesn’t have us fooled! I know there are churches, though, that would not be happy with his theology. BTW,I love the narrative too!

[stellar_renegade]

He doesn’t have to do much besides make a post every once in awhile. He may already have some kind of writings already typed up somewhere. shrug

[stellar_renegade]

We believe the day is coming when Jesus will return to judge the world, bringing an end to injustice and restoring all things to God’s original intent. God will reclaim this world and rule forever. The earth’s groaning will cease and God will dwell with us here in a restored creation. On that day we will beat swords into tools for cultivating the earth, the wolf will lie down with the lamb, there will be no more death, and God will wipe away all our tears. Our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation will be whole. All will flourish as God intends. This is what we long for. This is what we hope for. And we are giving our lives to living out that future reality now.

That does seem universalistic, and it’s a bit further than I’ve seen anyone else go, but I’ve also seen people make similar statements then disaffirm universalism. But the fact that he says “Our relationships with… others… will be whole” DOES seem to imply that everyone will be saved. It’s just so subtle and such a passing remark. Interesting!

[amy]

I don’t know how they ended up with the same name? Who had it first? On wikipedia it says this about Rob’s choosing the name…

Bell announced that he would be branching out on his own to start a new kind of community and he would call it “Mars Hill” after the Greek site where the apostle Paul told a group, “For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.”[4]

[SLJ]

Wow, Amy–thanks for finding that!! That’s fantastic! And I love the narrative approach too!

Sonia

[SLJ]

That does seem universalistic, and it’s a bit further than I’ve seen anyone else go, but I’ve also seen people make similar statements then disaffirm universalism. But the fact that he says “Our relationships with… others… will be whole” DOES seem to imply that everyone will be saved. It’s just so subtle and such a passing remark. Interesting!

Yes–very subtle… he doesn’t try to knock down traditional doctrines, just stands on the truth–a positive approach rather than a negative one. I like it! But you’re right, too, about people saying universalistic sounding things (usually when talking about certain passages in scripture ) and then disaffirming universalism. Hopefully Bell really means it! It sure sounds like he does.

Sonia

[amy]

Steller renegade said…
but I’ve also seen people make similar statements then disaffirm universalism.

I know this could be the case, but if it walks like an evangelical universalist, talks like an evangelical universalist, and acts like an evangelical universalist, then you know what they say…it is an evangelical universalist!!!

I can’t stop smiling about this! I guess it pays to be nosy!