The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Romans 1: 18 translation ...

Theology Biblical Theology
#1

The NIV version of Rom 1: 18 reads: “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,”

The Douay-Rheims reads: “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice:”

Note the “those” in the second version - I’ve underlined it.

Here are 4 different version to compare: biblegateway.com/passage/?s … UK;KJV;DRA

An interlinear page of the verse can be found here: biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/1-18.htm
which has an extra word after me: τῶν I’m told that this extra word changes the translation of “of men” to “those men”.

Can any Greek readers here confirm or deny this?

Do you think the Douay-Rheims version changes the meaning of the passage much?

Thanks,

Mike

#2

Hi Mike,

No, I don’t think it changes the meaning.

If you compare “of people who” with “of those men that” – well, it seems to mean the same thing to me. Does it seem to mean something different to you?

Sonia

#3

I think the Douay brings out the meaning fine. The interlinear at Bible Hub is good too.

Here is my personal translation of the verse:

I agree that “των” (which means “the”) specifies which people—namely the people who are hindering the truth through their impiety and unrighteousness.

#4

I’ll ping Paidion, too. Whoops, he got here first, yay!

A slightly more literal translation would be “…against all the irreverence” (the term isn’t “godlessness” but means something worse in some ways) “and injustice of-persons, of-the-ones restricting the truth in injustice.”

“Detain” as a version of “retain” is technically more accurate than “suppress” since the term isn’t necessarily negative in connotation – it can be used to refer to keeping a ship on course for example, and the positive moral comparison from that – but by context “suppress” is fine.

The words I bolded do appear in that word order in Greek signaling that the direct article, the “the”, isn’t simply the direct article of {anthrôpôn}; but the repetition of the genitive form means the same persons are being restated, using the direct article as a pronoun subject for the clause (which in Biblical Greek is pretty normal).

The DR is more strictly accurate in this translation I’d say, especially compared to the comma punctuation in the NIV as you reported. The NIV could be inadvertently (or intentionally?) taken to mean Paul is talking about God’s wrath being revealed against all persons because all persons suppress the truth by their injustice. A more accurate paraphrase into English idiom would be, “against all the irreverence and injustice of persons, namely those persons restricting the truth in injustice.”

Comparing in hindsight with Paidion, I think we agree. I especially appreciate his alternate translation of “truth” with “reality”. :slight_smile:

#5

Hi Mike…

Given my propensity to view such texts from a fulfilled eschatological perspective I like both renditions for differing reasons…

The NIV’s “is being” brings out the then current present tense reality, as was being experienced in their [Paul’s] ‘end of the world’ period [AD30-70 (40yrs)] in the winding up of the old covenant age and all that went it.

On the other hand what you highlight from the DRA… “against all ungodliness and injustice of those men” is in sync with Jesus’ imprecations against such men, i.e., the rulers of the Mosaic age who with great injustice and wickedness were suppressing the gospel of grace and hindering others from entering it, as per the likes of…

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.” Mt 23:13 cf Mt 3:7b

“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.” Lk 11:52

IOW as I understand it… Rom 1:18 is not so much a generic denunciation but was targeted closer to home.

#6

Davo,

That would make more sense if the context indicated such men were Paul’s targets for critique – and he’s certainly willing to critique them elsewhere. But misbehaving pagans are his topic in the second half of Romans 1 (transitioning by a practically Synoptic surprise reversal method into critiquing unmerciful Christians!)

#7

Yes Jason I hear you about the pagans. I’m looking at an underlying pattern where the bible shows God’s dealings with the wider world as predominately coming through His dealings with Israel… what God would do for the world He did first for Israel, or as Paul might say “to the Jew first and then the Gentile”.

Israel was God’s called and elected, His emissaries to and on behalf of the wider world; irrevocable so Rom 11:29]. As such Israel had great responsibility because she possessed and carried THE true knowledge of God…

…and so to the degree Israel abused or “gave up” that knowledge (something they did when falling into the same idolatrous ways of darkened paganism) to that degree the pagan remained in ignorance. This is why Israel’s sin was so perverse… she had in numerous times past gone the way of the gentiles and so in turn God “gave them up” – hence their exile, from which however in the plan of grace God would bring resurrection, i.e., “redemption… the forgiveness of sins”; the very thing that in turn wrought the reconciliation of all humanity.

Basically, where the leadership of Israel went therein like stray sheep trod the nation and invariably it was away from God… this was the case in Jesus’ “this generation” and judgement starting from the top down was not far away Lk 19:39-44. This then as I understand it underpins Paul’s “the wrath” language, referencing an inescapable outcome in line with past behaviour and history… as per the likes of Deut 32:15:22; Jud 2:10-17 – the very stuff Jesus also spoke to in his warnings passages.

#8

Oh I quite agree with all that – I’m a big fan of the idea that Israel was called to represent all humanity, a calling that Christians are elected to join in for the sake of all humanity. I’m only saying Paul isn’t talking about rebel Israel in the verse Mike was asking about. :slight_smile:

#9

Yep fair enough Jason. :slight_smile: I guess what my position clarifies by acknowledging a past application or fulfillment of said text is that God no longer judges the world or wickedness of men as He once did, be that generically as is typically applied according to much of Christendom today with regards to Rom 1:18, or more targeted as I point out which by nature of the case is or was more specifically related to a past time/series of events where that which was still being practiced (Temple worship & sacrifices etc) no longer had any redeeming value, but rather was “growing old and ready to pass away”.

Just a thought.

#10

Thanks for the replies. Very much appreciated.

I’ll post back in a while when I’ve thought this through.

Blessings,

Mike