The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Sad news to report

Sad news to report

  1. To receive Him it must be granted to you. It does not come by the will of the flesh, nor the will of man.

  2. The Lord must open your heart (like Lydia).

  3. No man can come to Jesus Christ “it is granted of My Father.”

  4. The foundation for being a disciple of Jesus Christ,

You did not choose Me, I chose you.

“As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God .”

He gave= Theos didomi

Not = ou

Of blood = haima

Nor = oude

The will = thelēma

The flesh = sarx

Of man = anēr

Of God = ek Theos

I have decided to follow Jesus

What’s even sadder is the implications this has for faith - how can someone who holds to unconditional election ever be completely sure of their own status (given the existence of people who have fallen away)? (There was a discussion about this in relation to Joshua Harris here: The implications of Joshua Harris for unconditional election)

Dear Mcarans: True faith does not originate within man, but in Him.

“We live by the faith of the Son of God…”

He is the Archegos & the Prodromos, the Prince Leader of faith and a whole lot more!

Yes, I wonder how Jonathan Edwards, for example, in all of his expressed non-Jesus-like hatred toward humanity, could be convinced that he was, in fact, among the elect, assuming that Calvinism is indeed true.

But how could Calvinism be true? How could all of these Calvinists have missed the clear argument for Universalism in these simple words?

Premise 1: God desires all be saved. (e.g., 1 Timothy 2:4: “[God] who desires (thelo) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”)

Premise 2: God accomplishes whatever He desires. (e.g., Isaiah 55:11: “So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire (thelo, from the Septuagint), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.”)

Conclusion: All will be saved.

The key word in this syllogism is the Greek verb thelo. When it is used in the Bible with respect to God, it always denotes something that will indeed happen. So, if God desires (thelo) it to happen, it will happen, without exception. (There is an apparent exception in Romans 9:22 in a few Bible versions, but that exception appears not to be a genuine exception, for the word that would make the verse an exception is “although,” and that word is not present in the original Greek of this verse, and the vast majority of translations do not include it.)

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The real good news is that Jesus chose all of us. You don’t have to have your heart opened, or you don’t have to believe, God has sent the son to be the atonement for all sin for all time. Today we continue to try to put ourselves in a position to save ourselves. Please don’t buy into that idea. You are where GOD wants you to be, you are HIS creation, you are great!!

Live life like you know GOD loves and accepts you.

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No matter who you are, or what you are doing? Sorry Chad, I’m all for optimism, but right now an ISIS rape camp comes into my mind. Is anyone there, where God wants them to be? Victims or perps?
Any optimism has to be realistic, that’s all I’m saying.

Jesus was talking about the disciples he chose for his ministry on earth for a specific task or purpose and for a limited time. I don’t think you can project this unto every person who ever lived and apply the same criteria. In other words there was a context in which Jesus chose certain people to follow him. Time was important as there was a specific mission to be done in a limited amount of time so Jesus HAD to chose his disciples.

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Steve I think you’re correct on that point. It’s important to keep a little critical distance between us and the text lest we think we are always being addressed personally. I’m not accusing FL of anything here, just making the point.:slight_smile:

Dear Steve: The foundation for discipleship is unchanging. It begins with His call in every last one destined to walk in union with Him,

I don’t disagree except for your choice of the word “destined” which suggests God ALWAYS chooses followers. Sometimes God did choose people for tasks but projecting that into Calvinism where God chooses who individually will be saved is to much of an assumption IMHO.

Dear Steve: The word we are discussing is tasso translated as ordained in the KJV.

The word means to arrange in an orderly manner, or to assign to a certain position/ appoint/ determine/ set/ ordain.

The foundation for this operation is the Author and Finisher.

Would you prefer “ordained” to eternal life rather than “destined”?

Destined=

Ordained=

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ordain