Aaron, I don’t really understand why you dismiss, with “unnatural” work-a-rounds, all Bible passages which speak of universal reconciliation. Accepting at face value these wonderful promises of God does not require you to give up any of the wonderful promises of God which you hold so dear with regard to your own personal salvation. God is so much more powerful, loving and forgiving than you are willing to give Him credit for. You really can “have your cake and eat it too!” God asks you to forgive your enemies, just as He is willing to forgive His. Would God hold you to a higher standard than that which He sets for Himself?
Richard
Well, when you leave 1Cor 15:22 in context…Paul is teaching through one man (Adam) came death and through one man (Jesus) came life. All who are in Adam will die. All who are in Christ shall be made alive. Paul is showing who you are “IN” will determine where you will spend eternity… one must take action by faith to receive God’s grace to be in Christ. Mankind’s spiritual and physical death through Adam is not voluntary. In fact, nearly everyone fights his whole life to stave off death. Yet it comes to one and all, good and bad. There are no exceptions.
Likewise, the resurrection of our bodies will happen to everyone. You don’t have to release faith to make it happen and no amount of self delusion can prevent it. Whether people want it or not, believe it or not, the resurrection of every person who has ever lived will happen, and an eternal existence in one of two places will be a reality. In Adam (Hell) In Christ (Heaven).
God bless,
Aaron
Aaron, you are misquoting and/or mistranslating the text, in order to force a non-universalist interpretation. I’m not saying you are necessarily wrong. What I am saying is that you are forcing the text into an “unnatural” interpretation to fit your theological belief system.
The text does not say “all who are in Christ” shall be made alive. It says “in Christ shall all be made alive.” There is a HUGE difference between the two.
You also misquoted the first part of the verse. It does not say “all who are in Adam will die,” it actually says “in Adam all die.”
Just as all died under the curse of Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. That is the most natural interpretation and the one the best fits the entire testimony of the totality of the bible, which portrays God as All-loving, All-just, wanting All to be saved, and All-powerful and able to accomplish all that He wills.
Love you,
Richard
Richard
You have to be teachable to be convinced. “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”
The key words are ‘IN Adam’ and '‘IN Christ’. How does one be In Christ… responds by faith to God’s grace and is made spiritually alive or born again. How does one remain In Adam… reject God’s grace and remain spirtually dead and separated from God. Therefore, IN Adam all die, IN Christ shall all be made alive. In Adam spiritually dead and separated from God for eternity. In Christ spiritually alive or born again and restored to God for eternity.
God bless,
Aaron
Aaron,
The first “all” refers to the entire human race. So does the second. It is a tautology, and tautologically speaking, the second “all” refers back to the first “all.” It doesn’t have to be interpreted in that way, and you do make a valid point. But to me, it’s a stretch to think that the first and second “alls” refer to two entirely different sets of people. I would be inclined to accept your interpretation, even though it is not the most obvious and natural interpretation, if it harmonized with the entire body of the Scriptures, but it doesn’t, and that is another subject altogether. Even the immediate context, however, supports my view. In the end, the last enemy to be destroyed is death (If there is no more death, how can there be any dead people remaining?), and “everything” is put under Christ and then handed over to the Father, and God will be “all IN all.” Think about that last phrase, God will be “IN” all. What can that mean other than God will be dwelling in all human hearts?
Love “IN” Christ,
Richard
Back at you!
It goes two ways.
Richard
Aaron,
Are you 100% teachable about everything? Or do you sometimes resist God?
For those passing through (and who haven’t read this elsewhere on the forum):
It’s more than a little pointless to try to interpret “all things in the heavens” reconciling to God and this not meaning sinning persons; Paul nowhere else (including in close proximity in Colossians, v.21-22) speaks of impersonal objects needing reconciliation to God, but only rebels against Him. And Satan’s kingdom is elsewhere established to mean wherever there are rebels against God–a kingdom that in any case shall be overcome and destroyed by God. (Which can only mean that one way or another there will be no more rebels, sooner or later.)
As much to the point, back just previously in verse 16 Paul emphasizes “For by (or in) Him (meaning God, apparently including the person of Christ) all things were created, those in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things have been created by (or through) Him and for Him; and He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”
A37’s explanation ignores this context (which needless to say doesn’t harmonize with other scriptural teaching elsewhere on this topic either!), leaving over the necessary implication that there must exist a kingdom of Satan (often spoken of by Paul as thrones, dominions, rulers etc.) where entities were not created by God, do not continue to exist by God, etc.
At best, that’s cosmological God/Anti-God dualism, not even supernaturalistic theism (much less trinitarian theism).
I’m pretty sure A37 wasn’t intending to deny supernaturalistic theism (much less ortho-trin). But, as usual, attempting to deny universalism, including by scriptural interpretation, leads to just that result: either contexts have to be flatly ignored, or else a denial of supernaturalistic theism has to be read into (not out of) the text.
To recap:
1.) St. Paul strenuously emphasizes, in the strongest language possible, that ALL THINGS, whether on the earth or in the heavens, were created by God and continue to exist by God;
1.1.) including language he often uses for rebel heavenly entities.
2.) Shortly afterward, Paul strenuously emphasizes, in the strongest language possible, that it is the good pleasure of God to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself through the Son, having made peace through the blood of His cross–through Him (Paul emphasizes again) whether things on earth or things in the heavens.
3.) Paul elsewhere is extremely consistent about only rebels against God needing reconciling by God to God, including immediately afterward v.21-22 when comparing reconciled Christians to their previous state–a state Paul warns they might fall away from again, by the way, shortly afterward, v.23.
(It may be relevant that Paul’s warning has to do with them moving away from the hope of the gospel which they have heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which he himself became a minister. What hope of the good news?–the hope he was just immediately talking about perhaps! Which was…?)
Thus, either God (from His eternal perspective, whether it has happened in natural history yet or not) has made peace with all rebels everywhere through the blood of the cross, reconciling them to Himself), including rebel spiritual ‘things in the heavens’ (invisible thrones, dominions, rulers and authorities), which eternally holds despite ongoing rebellions or returns to rebellion; or else verses 16-17 must (at best) be reinterpreted to mean that rebel entities (especially spiritual ones) were created by some power other than God and continue to exist by some power other than God (in exclusion to the apparent total inclusion of those verses.)
There aren’t any other options. Excluding entities from v.20 requires excluding entities from vv.16-17, too.
And, by the way, the kingdom of the dead is only the kingdom of Satan’s temporarily; for Christ has become the first-born from even among the dead, so that He Himself may come to have first place in everything. (v.18) How can it be that Christ is not yet in first place in everything, if by Him all things were created and hold together (as testified just previously by St. Paul)? Only in that there are still rebels who continue to sin, and so who (so far as their sin goes) do not follow God: Christ is not their leader.
Not yet: but Christ is first-born from among the dead so that He may come to have first place in everything! And so St. Paul then goes on to expressly state what he means: that through Him and the blood of His cross the Father is reconciling all things to Himself.
It is all about salvation from sin and rebellion, and that salvation primarily; consequently from this, salvation from condemnation and punishment as may be.