The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Scripture (long, but may edify someone :o)

Why create complexity, using the same fundamental substance you do not accept in it’s simplicity. If we do not believe certain simply stated things from the scriptures, why would we use the scriptures to create a more complex idea that explains away the simple things that are too much a stretch for our faith, or too humbling a truth for our pride. If the scripture cannot be relied upon in its repeated simple statements of history- Creation; The flood; The virgin birth; The miracles of Christ and the apostles; The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus- Why would anyone point to the same scriptures they have so little confidence in to justify any other point of doctrine or facet of spiritual knowledge?

A book of myths and allegories does us no good as a source for determining truth because such a book is entirely subjective.

Who decides which part is myth? Which part is allegory? Which part is absolutely doctrinal bedrock?

Yet people do this all the time, supporting their beliefs by telling you how they know which part of the scripture you believe is allegorical and which part of scripture they believe is absolute doctrinal bedrock.

Yet, Jesus, on the mount of temptation(if you can believe such a fairy tale) replies to the devil- “It is written” -in every case. When in combat with the Pharisees and Sadducees, He uses scripture after scripture to make His case for the kingdom of God.

Paul, the writer of half of the NT and the source material for most doctrine says, God created all nations from one man. If Adam is just an allegorical arch type, then Paul was a literalist who did not grasp the true revelation of God and we cannot rely on him in any area for proof because we cannot have it both ways. If we have become too wise for Paul. If the limitations of Paul’s time were too severe to speak unaltered into ours, and the scriptures can no longer be read without the addition of our greater wisdom, then they are only fables, principles and platitudes.

And that is just fine, Ok? Just let’s not bring our principles and platitudes forward and declare that they are the basis for your absolute doctrinal bedrock. You cannot eviscerate the very authority you would like others to regard (but only when you wield it)- because what that does is make you the authority, and your interpretations, and your opinions of what is allegory and what is undependable.

One may however, hold those opinions and define those limits as long as it is clear that you are only dealing in platitudes and principles and quit calling that system of theology “the word of God”. Just represent your beliefs as opinions.

Even though the Bible does contain allegories, it does not contain myths. An allegory, symbol, type or parable drawn as an image of spiritual reality in scripture is true. It is an actual representation of something real. Altho we may disagree as to its meaning we ought to agree to the depth of its integrity because if we do not then why bother to disagree at all over something so slight in value.

The scriptures tell us that they are given by “holy men inspired by God who spoke by the Holy Spirit”. Hebrews calls them oracles of God. Paul says,

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Peter says,

19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (2 Pet 1:19-21)

So Peter in fact regards his closeness to the Lord in time and space as evidence of a superior, even foundational understanding of the scriptures, as the prophetic word was transferred directly from the Lord to the apostles. Yet we talk as tho Peter and Paul lacked only the learning and perspective that we have today so we ought to allow them the idiosyncrasies of their of era- but overrule them when we must. How generous of us to ourselves.

But if Peter is correct, and not just suffering from delusions of grandeur- we cannot be so liberal with the scriptures. If Paul is correct we have to accept certain basic rules of interpretation and explanation.

We call this exegesis, but exegesis can be a deceiving term. If the considerations by which the exegesis is done are too narrow, or skewed by pre-conception or personal favoritism based in things like the regard of others opinions of us, or unknown foundational errors of perception- it is undone in its own internal misunderstandings.

I have found over the years that every so-called dichotomy or contradiction that appears to exist in the scriptures resolves itself from a point “further in”. In other words, the farther into the mind of Christ we press the more the walls of paradox resolve into facets of a larger paradigm we had not previously seen- because of our limitations, not the limitations of the scriptures or the writers of them, who according to themselves, wrote by the hand of God. If they did not, then they were mad, or arrogant delusional fools.

I believe that the literal statements of the scripture must all integrate as we approach the unity of the faith and the mind of Christ. The allegories, types and parables of scripture will not negate literal truths of scripture. The science and philosophy and archeology of the day cannot negate the literal truths of scripture. It is the veracity of the scriptures upon which the whole faith rests, because it is only through the scriptures that we know this faith. Destroy these truths and destroy the authority for teaching the gospel of Jesus as anything beyond a really good idea for conduct.

Looking at the scriptures as the prophetic word, as the sword of the Spirit- there are similar rules that must be regarded as we approach the mind of Christ. People speak of prophecy and interpret parables and if their interpretation runs contrary to the scriptures they say, “This is by the Spirit. You cannot understand it by the written word”.

But in many places the written word testifies that it exists by the Spirit, as the oracles of God, the “it is written” of Christ. Any prophecy or interpretation of prophecy that relies upon ignoring or invalidating any other part of the written word is not reliable.

Any spiritual revelation will open the scriptures not close them.

"Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; and one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”(Rv 5:4)

Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.(Rv 19:10)

For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an[h]utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”— and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.(2 Pet 1:16-20)

Paul speaks of the gospel as revealed by now being manifested and by the Scriptures of the prophets.

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.(Rom 16:25-27)

The mystery of God as it opens like a rose does not leave the scriptures behind but takes us “further into” the mind of Christ- the Logos, that “incorruptible seed”.

Jesus said, in making a point to the Pharisees, “the scripture cannot be broken”.(Jn 10:35)

The unbroken chain of scripture depends upon its own testimonial integrity. Beginning with the milk of the word(1 Pet 2:2), the elementary principles of the oracles of Christ(Heb 5:13), a believer grows in Christ, “in whom are hid all the treasures of the wisdom and knowledge of God”.

As a believer grows into the hidden wisdom, the Spirit reveals deeper foundations through “comparing spiritual words with spiritual realities”(1 Cor 2)- but never leaving the milk of the word behind. It is a process of opening the scriptures to resolve the paradox and open the paradigm, the revelation, the mystery- previously hidden.

To the one who has more shall be given, to the one who has not, even that which he has will be taken away.

The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking treasure who when he comes upon a pearl of exceeding great price goes and sells all that he has to obtain it.

The key to receiving wholesome revelation is keeping revelation “in Christ”. It is the lifting up of Jesus that anchors the scriptures, because they come from Him, and He is the sum total of them and more. Once revelation becomes centered in anything else your moorings are broken and the the anchor is cut and the ship is “tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and the deceitful scheming of men in their craftiness”(Eph 4).

Paul prayed in Ephesians that the believers would receive a “spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God”- but He also prayed that they would be “rooted and grounded in love so that they night be filled up to all the fulness of God”.

To be rooted and grounded in Christ is to be rooted and grounded in love because God is love and “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God”. The word of God supports its own testimonial, but only as we grow in Christ will it be “unveiled” and “manifest”.

Until such a time as Jesus Christ has fully secured our heart for love over truth and grace over law, the truth about the law of God is closed to us. Until we have been rightly divided, we cannot rightly divide the word of truth.

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The vail is taken away “in Christ”. Revelation only remains undefiled in the ones who are centered in Him- in relationship, in desire, in love. They are the ones who “have” and unto whom “more shall be given”. Their increasing knowledge will yield increasing freedom, while those whose knowledge is centered in knowing and being regarded as knowing will increase bondage. They will lose what they have,as the vail slowly descends again and they are unable to follow the path of the mystery through the scriptures of the prophets and apostles. So they will develop systems to circumvent the obvious and drown themselves in categories and subcategories of dispensations and divisions and polarize themselves on either side of unfathomable questions until the life of Christ is no longer “unveiled” or “manifest” within them, unless their hunger will lead them to seek God again in the Spirit and in the scriptures until “the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ begins to dawn in them again.”(2 Cor 4)

The evidence that these systems of theology are counterproductive and carnal rather than spiritual is the deliberateness and willingness with which the schools of thought separate from one another.

They have forgotten the milk of the word, “Little children, love one another”… “I pray that you may be one, even as I and my Father are one”… “Above all, maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace”.

They believe they are in pursuit of the meat of the word, but often they are pursuing their own meat, and the glory of men.

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.(James 3)

We are to seek the truth of the scriptures so it will build us up in the love of Christ and unveils His life in us and causes it to manifest among us.

“And great grace was upon them all and the word of the Lord grew and multiplied and they were all as one soul”.

They did not have a systematic theology, they had a revelation of the scriptures of the prophets and a relationship with Jesus Christ as Head over all things by the Spirit. They didnt have a detailed definition of the Deity. They did not have organizations and buildings and colleges and by the time those things began to emerge the real body of Christ was mostly driven underground. The historical record we have is mostly the record of the the vanquishers of the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” and history of the adulteration of the gospel of Jesus by ambitious power hungry religionists.

Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.(2 Cor 4)

If we preach for the maintenance of our organizational ties or for the promotion of a systematic theology we are adulterating the word of God. This doesn’t mean we cannot be in an organization. God may place us anywhere- but wherever we are we must be centered in Christ or we will not be “multiplying the word of the Lord”(to him who has more shall be given), we will be creating vails and distributing them to men(to him who has not even what he has shall be taken away).

We will be caught in the little eddies and run-offs away from the central current of “the river that makes glad the city of God”- fighting battles that yield little benefit, or even harm to the hearers- and thinking all the time we are in the very center of God’s will.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

This is a description of the church in Acts. The word did not divide them, it unified them. They were hearing the voice of the Lord in the scriptures so clearly that great grace was upon them and “the Lord worked with them confirming the word with signs and wonders”.
One of the debates among Christians today is, “does God still do wonders among His people, are the gifts of the Spirit still available?”

The answer to that may very well be in the form of another question.

Is the word we teach something the Lord would confirm with signs and wonders? Is the anemia that runs through organized Christianity from Catholicism to Protestantism to Pentecostalism due to the arrogance of those who are certain they are “continuing in His word” when really they are worshipping and serving at altars long ago left behind by God? Simply shifting the focus. Re-arranging the building blocks, Re-orienting the perspective away from the centrality of Jesus in the scriptures and the ultimate love and forgiveness of God is enough to defile the revelation being proclaimed and making it a messenger of confusion and death.

I have seen the power of God manifest in the assembly and I have seen futile pleas for mercy go seemingly unanswered. I have heard great sermons and heard dynamic prophesies and threats of earth shaking events that did not come to pass. I have seen these things in churches of 1000’s and 100’s and 10’s. I have sat with men of tremendous knowledge who were not interested in learning anymore, but wanted rather to confirm one another and enhance their standing together. I have watched the conversations go round the turnstile for the thousandth time, with little yield in further agreement or deeper understanding.

I still wonder why believers do not seem to want to discuss for long….“Where is the glory of God today?”… “What hinders the Spirit in our midst?” … But will beat each other about for eons over the unfathomable balance between what God allows and what He ordains or whether God is a Trinity or a Singularity.

But the scripture teaches that we can attain the unity of the faith, unto full stature, rooted and grounded in love, filled up to all the fulness of God- so I believe it. I think of the vision of the valley of dry bones and I long for the army of God to arise, flesh upon bone, joined in union, love and purpose. Maybe this will only be manifest in the next age, but I believe it nust manifest in some measure before this age comes to an end. I believe it must happen because the scriptures say it can.

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

But then, I believe the earth was created by God in 7 periods of time called days, that Moses raised his staff and the Red Sea parted, that Jesus was born of a virgin, and that He lived a sinless life and was crucified for the reconciliation of the whole world, including every being who ever lived in it, in the heavens, on earth, or under the earth. :slight_smile:

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions, leading to statistical errors. – Science Daily