SDA = Seventh Day Adventist
The following discussion is from: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/an-argument-for-eternal-conscious-torment.8080333/page-8#post-73160685
Saving men into endless bliss is certainly infinitely more loving than annihilating them out of existence forever like an endless Hitler-like gas chamber.
Suffering is the fate of humanity in this world. God allows it. He allows evil, torments & tortures. Even though He could easily stop it all. Therefore it must be for a good purpose.
In the book of Job the man named Job suffers the loss of his family, wealth & health. We are told that God removed His protection from Job & gave Satan permission to destroy Job’s life. Thereafter He restored what Job had lost so that he had even more than before, both spiritually & materially.
[QUOTE=“mmksparbud, post: 73159925, member: 297518”]
Shades of the Spanish Inquisition—torture them until they recant and agree to their terms. That y0u call that love is not just ludicrous, but downright obscene. [/QUOTE]
Even - if - that were true, it would - still - be infinitely more loving than an endless annihilation Hitler-god. Do you not believe the Scriptures:
1 Cor.5:4 When you are gathered in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
1 Tim.1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
2 Cor.12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
God’s anger being corrective: "Then you will say on that day, “I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me.” (Is.12:1)
The judgement of God’s wrath corrects a sinner for his own good: “Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness.” (Micah 7:9)
Even those whom He punished & they have refused to repent God promises to eventually heal & restore: Isa.57:16 For I will not accuse you forever, nor will I always be angry; for then the spirit of man would grow weak before Me, with the breath of those I have made. Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him; I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart. 18 I have seen his ways, but I will heal him; I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners
Hab.1:12b O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.
Hosea 6:1 "Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.
When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." (Isa.26:9b)
Dan.4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles’ feathers, and his nails like birds’ claws.
34a But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him…
36 At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me.
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.
[QUOTE=“mmksparbud, post: 73159925, member: 297518”]
That anyone would rather die, permanently—cease to exist–the to be with God, you may find beyond comprehension —but Satan would rather do so and His followers also. [/QUOTE]
Irrelevant. God knows what’s best for them, namely being saved & living in endless bliss with Him. So even - if - anyone wished to be annihilated forever, Love would never grant such a wish. That would be unloving. Just as unloving as allowing a spoiled brat child to have her/his way in doing something that would cause his/her irreparable harm or death.
So does everyone until God works in their life.
Satan was in the presence of God. Read the book of Job.
God is patient. He has all eternity to wait for those in “hell” to repent. There are ages to come in which people can change their mind & turn to Love Omnipotent to receive His salvation in Christ. Until then they’ll reap what they’ve sown. They won’t know the peace, love or joy of God. They’ll be in torments.
[QUOTE=“mmksparbud, post: 73159925, member: 297518”]
If we choose to be without the protection of Jesus—there is nothing that can protect anyone from the fire light that is God. [/QUOTE]
Love Omnipotent will protect them. Just as He does now. For in Him we all live & move & have our being.
What would you call what is described in 1 Cor.5:4-5; 1 Tim.1:19-20? Or what happened to Job in the book of Job? Or the thorn in the flesh Paul received? Or God’s chastenings? Or being given to the tormentors till he pays (Mt.5 & 18)?
Mt.18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.
Mt.5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
“They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing – which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they’ve been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages.” Why affirm belief in Hell?
Mal.3:2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He will be like a refiner’s fire, like a launderer’s soap.
3 And He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will present offerings to the LORD in righteousness
Lk.12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
A loving parent doesn’t allow their 5 year old child to foolishly choose a path leading to his/her death.
But it’s okay with you if God coerces people to come to him by the tormenting painful fear of endless extermination out of existence? Is that what motivates endless annihilation believing people like Jehovah’s Witnesses & your SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) folks?
The fact is the wicked are already empty & in pain without being in union with their Maker. They are reaping what they’ve sown. How much more so when the things of this world they loved are removed from them in the afterlife?
In light of the above, i’d suggest you spend more time in the Bible & believing what it says instead of “what you want”.
“But there are those who find this an intolerable state of affairs, sometimes because of an earnest if misguided devotion to what they believe Scripture or tradition demands, sometimes because the idea of the eternal torment [or annihilation] of the derelict appeals to some unpleasantly obvious emotional pathologies on their parts.”
