I would like help on what the Bible actually teaches about being separated from God.
If any members can give scripture references to passages which allude to a person’s separation/distance/closeness to/from God I would be very grateful.
For example, when I was an arminian, I used to describe Hell as ‘separation from God’. This is an extremely common view in traditional Evangelical Churches. What evidence (if any) is there for holding this position?
God bless
The lof is in the presence of the lamb and saints. Rom 8 nothing can separate us from the love of God. InHim we live and move and breathe.
Hi John
A good question. I would agree with Jeremy that it is *impossible *for us to be truly ‘separated’ from God. Can’t remember the exact passage off the top of my head, but doesn’t David say something in the Psalms somewhere along the lines of ‘even if I go down into the grave, you are there with me’? I’ll try and find it.
I would say that Scripture talks more in terms of us being ‘alienated’ from God, or of being inimical to Him in our sinful state. (A strongly Pauline concept.) Because although in some senses God is closer to us than we are to ourselves, we certainly don’t always *feel *close to Him - Jesus included, famously, on the cross. And this must, sometimes, have something to do with our sinfulness.
I will ponder some more and get back to you.
All the best
Johnny
And yet… perhaps there are scriptures which refer to separation from God (see below)? These are the ones I am looking for.
Thanks Jeremy.
Thanks Johnny. I think its Psalm 139 - one of my favourites:
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell (Sheol), behold, thou art there.
Jesus on the cross - yes, “My God Why have you left me?” Jesus either felt or WAS separated from His Father. I think it reasonable to interpret this statement as an indication that the Son was separated from the Father (Because of taking on the sin of the world?).
Perhaps this gives support for those who would claim that sin separates us from God and that that state may be eternal.
Cheers
John
Here are a couple of NT verses that talk of separation, at least in the NIV translation:
Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Ephesians 4:18
They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
Those were the only two I could find using the ‘keyword search’ facility at BibleGateway.com (an excellent resource, by the way, especially for comparing translations quickly).
Cheers
John
Oops, missed this one from the OT:
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Seems pretty unequivocal eh; sin does indeed separate us from God?
J
PS Psalm 139 is one of my favourites too 
Paul clears up separation in a few places I think.
And you who were formerly enemies in your minds.
He upholds and sustains all things through his mighty word.
The only separation that exists is in our carnal minds. Our minds have been veiled to the truth that Christ in you is the hope of Glory.
Sorry if I’m not answering your question.
Interesting discussion here Pilgrim. This idea of separation from God is well worth pondering because it creates great anxiety and even terror for many people.
The several verses already mentioned are good antidotes to the notion of separation from God, but you have raised, to what is in my mind the most crucial statement ever made in the Bible regarding separation from God, “My, My God why have you forsaken me.” This cry of dereliction by Jesus on the cross was the summation and culmination of all the cries of hopeless, despair across all of time. If that was a cry of godforsakenness uttered by anyone else it would add weight to the argument that some can actually be separated from God for a time and perhaps even for eternity. But is was the cry of the one who had the intimate relationship with God that is so deep and interpenetrating that he called God Abba, Father. That relationship defined who Jesus was, without it Jesus ceased to be the Son, and the Father ceased to be the Father. This is God suffering separation within his own being, ripping himself asunder for one purpose–to become the God of all the godforsaken and untouchable sinners, even the dead.
This is why Paul can write those audacious and uncompromising words in Romans 8. It is the love of God made real in Jesus’ godforsaken dereliction on the cross that makes it impossible for anyone or anything to ever be separated from God. Why, because Jesus has taken the life of God into those places of nihilistic darkness and despair and made them places of hope that will be filled to overflowing by the healing, life giving presence of YHWH and the Lamb–the resurrection of all things.
Hey everyone
Don’t miss this - this answers everything about who is separated from God, and why. I wanted to emphasize bits in colour and so on but then I didn’t want to leave any of it out of the emphasis!
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What is so marvellous about this is that it brings the focus right back where it should be - on Jesus and what HE did for the whole creation.
That means nothing is left out.
This is a passage that people use to teach separation:
Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Sonia
Yes Ruth, I agree - another beautiful post from Dave and I think it is profound that God, by experiencing the ultimate depth of despair, can redeem us from that situation.
Johnny :
Thank you for flagging that text.
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
“have hidden His face from you” is an interesting description. We may not be hidden from God, but He is hidden from us - from our perspective.
Sonia:
I would never have thought of that one! Thank you.
Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
I am now concluding that it is perfectly ‘legitimate’ for our brethren/sisters to describe ‘Hell’ as ‘separation from God’ even if I do not happen to share the perspective that the separation is eternal.
Thanks to all participants for helping me get a handle on this topic.
God bless