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Evangelical Universalism Arguments for Evangelical Universalism
#281

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #47

CHOOSING – part 1

Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone actually prefer to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that God has provided. I’m 73 years old now.

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

Also see
**TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY **
tentmaker.org/books/time/

Also see
THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM at
tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.

#282

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #48

CHOOSING – part 2

**ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE **
Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
tentmaker.org/articles/savio … /index.htm
godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
tentmaker.org/books/Absolute … hrist.html
richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi … vation.htm
sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm (the author, Charles Slagle’s personal website containing many other good writings about the subject)

Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
Or
CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
christian-universalism.com/links.html
Or
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
christianuniversalist.org
Or
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr … ained.html
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html
Or
WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED (If necessary copy and paste the following url into your browser address bar)
lighthouselibrary.com/read.p … or=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a God Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved (including their stubborn wills). That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible. And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.

SO FOR US THE CHOICE IS EASY

#283

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #49

TRANSLATIONS

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

  1. Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”
    “And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

  2. The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
    “And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

  3. Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
    “And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”
    Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

  4. The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
    “And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

  5. The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
    "And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

  6. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
    “And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”
    Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.” It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

  7. The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
    “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
    The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

  8. Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,
    “And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

  9. Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
    “And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”
    It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit. The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

  10. The Concordant Version (1930):
    “And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

  11. The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
    “And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

  12. Joseph Bryant Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
    “and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

  13. The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976 has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

  14. Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

  15. Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.” The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html
Chapter Eleven

#284

There is no doubt that God has always existed, but the statement at Romans 16:26 speaks of Him as an eonian God. The Scriptures say He made the eons, so He existed before they were made, and He will exist after the eons have been concluded (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26). He is endless. To argue that “eonian God” makes the “eonian” unlimited time because God is unlimited is illogical. Isaiah 54:5, KJV, calls Him “the God of the whole earth.” This does not preclude Him from also being the God of the entire universe. In the context of Romans 16:26, He is called the “eonian God,” but He was God before the eons were made; He is God during all the eons, and in post-eonian times. In other words, just because the Scriptures refer to Him as the “God of the ages” does not preclude Him from being the God of eternity. The Scriptures declare Him the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,” and “the God of Israel.” Does that mean He cannot therefore be the God of the gentiles, of the whole universe? Of course not! As for the KJV translation, “forever and ever,” there are some students of the Greek who admit that this is not a faithful translation of the Greek words found in the text. The Greek uses three distinct phrases, all of which are translated the same in the KJV.
• Hebrews 1:8: ho thronos sou ho theos eis ton aiona tou aionos, “Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon.” In both occurrences in this verse, the Greek word we translated “eon” appears in the singular.
• Ephesians 3:21: auto hê doxa en tê ekklêsia kai en Christo Iêsou eis pasas tas geneas tou aionos ton aionon, “To Him be the glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons. Amen.” Here the Greek word for eon is used twice. The first time it is in the singular; the second time it is in the plural.
• Galatians 1:5: ho hê doxa eis tous aionas ton aionon, “To Whom be glory for the eons of the eons.” Here the Greek word for eon appears twice in the plural.
Philippians 1:10 says (ASV margin), “so that ye may distinguish the things that differ.” Since the words of God are inspired and are used precisely, to ignore the differences in these passages is to ignore what He is saying.
lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/

#285

Good post dialoguewithus!

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #50

UNFORGIVABLE SIN

concordant.org/expohtml/Huma … phemy.html

#286

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #51

VESSELS OF DISHONOR

For anyone who may be interested, all of the arguments presented by ETers that universalism is not scriptural have been refuted in detail in this online book.
HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN (published 2007)
It can an be downloaded free and read online here
hopebeyondhell.net/

I thank God for being able to see that believers in eternal torment will remain believers in eternal torment for as long as God wants them to.

God needs them as vessels of the grossest dishonor, a foil of contrast against which He will demonstrate the power of His love that never fails and His undefeatable grace.

But after the resurrection God will refashion all believers in eternal torment into vessels of honor because they were marred in the Potter’s hands and they never leave His hands.

The doctrine of eternal torment is part of the black background against which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the brush of His undefeatable grace.

After believers in eternal torment have done their very best to convince others about what God will not do, God is going to do it anyway.

Believers in eternal torment will probably not want to have anything to do with this link, but others on this forum might.
Why not check it out?
Read the reviews first – just a suggestion.
HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN
hopebeyondhell.net/

#287

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #52

On City-Data Christian forum there is an ETer named twin-spin who frequently likes to refer to universal reconciliation as “vomit.”

twin-spin’s “vomit” versus UR’s "vomit"

twin-spin’s definition of “vomit”
Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection,
He is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved,
including their stubborn will.

UR’s defintion of “vomit”
Sustaining anyone alive in an inescapable state of everlasting suffering.

A snippet from A TREATISE ON ATONEMENT – HOSEA BALLOU

“We are told of a god who created millions of beings whom he intends for endless torments and puts His whole design into execution; and this is called ‘goodness.’

In millions of cases this god finds it most for his glory to make his rational, hoping, wanting creatures endlessly miserable.

We are likewise told of a devil who acts for his own gratification, and who delights in making God’s creatures miserable; and this is called ‘badness.’

Shall we thus represent our kind and merciful Father from Whom streams of goodness continually flow to His wanting, needing creatures?
No; let every vibration of sense within us acknowledge His bountiful hand which will never close.”

#288

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #53

WHO SHALL WORSHIP GOD?

A snippet from
“ASK OF ME OF THINGS TO COME” – K. ROSS MCKAY

“WHO SHALL EVENTUALLY WORSHIP GOD?
Every creature Rev. 5:13
All flesh Isa. 66:23
All the ends of the world Psa. 22:27
All the kindreds of the nations Psa. 67:7
All the isles of the heathen Zep. 2:11
All the nations whom Thou hast made Psa. 86:9; Rev. 15:4

#289

Every creature, celestial, terrestrial and subterranean Phil. 2:9-11

Forced Subjugation?

Does the subjection of all under Christ’s feet involve forced submission? 1 Cor. 15:20-28. Not at all; first, we see that Christ will subject Himself to His Father. The same word is used because the same action is described; willing and worshipful submission. This is underscored in Phil. 2:9-11, where all bow IN the name of Jesus, a name meaning “God saves”. How is it that every tongue will be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord? No one is able to say ‘Jesus is Lord” except by Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:3. So it is apparent that their hearts are susceptible to God’s spirit. “For the Son of Mankind came to seek and to save the lost.” Luke 19:10.
How many will He seek? “And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to myself.” John 12:32. The word ‘men’ is not in the Greek; this is universal.
If we read Phil. 3:21, we see the use of the Greek word “kata” (“in accord with/ according to”); see Matt. 9:29 for another example. We are told that the operation which enables Christ to subject all to Himself is in accord with the transfiguration of the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory. Nothing could be farther from forced subjugation than this! Paul reveals a wondrous truth in Romans 5:19, and it relates to all mankind: “For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.” Reconciliation is a willing and mutual agreement; one-sided conciliation or forced submission doesn’t correspond with God’s plan as described in Colossians 1:15-20.

#290

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #54

A TRIBUTE TO MY FATHERS WORK
by Steven Tutt

Rodger Tutt has taken it upon himself to address and confront one of the central ideas of many Christians and of one most misused and misdirected tools of Christianity; that of controlling people through the fear of endless hell.
His heart-felt knowing of God let him ask something like - If God Loves us, and is omnipotent, how could/would God determine that any being suffering endlessly would/could serve Loves purpose?
Even with the imposed threat of his eternal damnation looming over his head, his spirit could not accept this distortion of Gods Love.

He was taught that even to question the teachings, or consider another perspective was a sin. He had to swallow and believe everything he was told, no questions. This type of “fear-control” of a persons free thought and freedom to consider and evaluate other options is a very destructive, controlling, and blatant misuse of mind control and manipulation.

Even with no one else to back him up and no other alternative idea to comfort him, he knew, if only through its absence that there was another way. So he set out into the emptiness of total blind faith, alone, with no map, and no cane, only the pure faith and knowing that God is Love, to find the description or view of God that gave the true picture of a loving God.
I’m sure if you ask him he will tell you something like " he had no faith or knowing that God was Love at all, and that he had a nervous breakdown, and could only hope there was a better way".

But his inability to accept that a loving God would let any being suffer forever shows me that even though he had no words to describe what he felt, he knew this was not the way of Love or a loving God. Nervous Breakdown, whatever, call it what you will. I think it was the true loving God taking hold of him in the only language he had been taught, fear. I think it said to him in a voice he only could hear inside himself, something like:
"This that you call a nervous breakdown, is my loving hands stopping you from a life lived in fear.
Those that you love will damn you, as those that I loved betrayed me. But they do not know me as you do, they think I am a cruel God, but even though you have no words to protest your heart knows me and knows that I am a God of Love.
You may not understand what I am doing in your mind, or know that this fear is my hands loving you, because I talk to you with the grip of fear, and deep inside you know I am love. But, know in your soul where you have not words for it, that when this fear passes you will be free to live in the knowing of my Love.

Know that none will need to suffer forever, or even for a moment more than must be. Those who damn you are damning themselves to a life lived in fear, for they choose to believe that their God would allow a being to suffer eternal extreme cruelty with nothing good ever coming from it. In their minds they live in a world which is ruled by a cruel God.
When they are drawing their final breaths they may still believe they are being delivered into such cruel hands. They will not live in the peace knowing of my unconditional Love until they accept that none will be lost, none will be left behind.
I am assisting you through this temporary fear for it stops you from swallowing the poison of accepting that I am a cruel God. Here I set you free. I set free to find the way of my love which is unconditional, and if one loves without condition, none can be turned away."

Rodgers experience was of terror, immobilizing, paralyzing. He did not have the comfort of realizing what was said to him at the time. But he went on anyway, and searched as in the dark for people with other answers, as one would search for needles in a haystack. The people-needles would help him burst the bubbles of illusion and fear people had blown into his brain. In time he found these people amongst the billions that live on this earth and from each he took and preserved each little needle they gave and from them he fashioned a sword of truth, a sword of Love and Light that he would use to cut away the bonds of control, fear and guilt from others, and let them see the Love of God.

Someone had to make the sword, and working metal is a hot and tiresome job. The sword had to be very strong. Much time was needed to be put into its making. Its strength had to be of the highest integrity, so many tests were put upon it.
Rodger Tutt was commissioned by God to make this sword. He is his own testament to himself that everything will be better that it happened. For if he did not go through what he did he would never have known how the sword must be made or had the persistence to see its completion.
His spirit is the essence of the sword.
The words of his book, the actions of his life, his thoughts and speech, make up the blade.

When I was growing up I remember hearing the forging of that sword. For many hours of many days, behind the door of his sword making shop that he called his room, I heard him forming its shape and perfecting the details on the forge he called his typewriter. I hear he still sits sharpening his sword.
He is generous in letting others use it.

The proud son of a spiritual warrior called Rodger Tutt.
Steve P. Tutt

(HE HAS COMPILED AN EXTENSIVE LIST OF LITERATURE THAT SUPPORTS HIS VIEWS)

#291

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #55

REGARDING THE SET OF EIGHT 90 MINUTE TAPES BY JAMES CORAM CALLED
“HUMAN CHOICE AND THE DEITY OF GOD”
These can be purchased online HERE
concordant.org/recorded/index.html

About these tapes Rodger Tutt says, “I have listened to this set of tapes several dozens of times. I would rather have knowledge of the contents of these tapes than have millions of dollars.
These tapes will help you “unlearn” all the indoctrination that prevents you from embracing the truth of universal transformation.”

#292

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #56

YOU HAVE HEARD THAT IT WAS SAID – Kenneth Larsen

“You hear that it was declared, ‘You shall be loving your associate’ and you shall be hating your enemy. Yet I am saying to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who are persecuting you, so that you may become sons of your Father Who is in the heavens, for He causes His sun to rise on the wicked and the good, and makes it rain on the just and the unjust. For if ever you should love those who are loving you, what wages have you? Are not the tribute collectors also doing the same? And if ever you should greet your brothers only, what are you doing that is excessive? Are not those of the nations also doing the same? You, then, shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt. 5:43-48.

You have heard that it was said, “God hates those people so much He’s going to torment them in the flames.”
But God says, “To no one render evil for evil; rather, conquer evil with good. In doing this, you will be heaping embers of fire on his head.” Ro. 12:17-21.

You have heard that it was said, “God offers salvation to all mankind, but only saves those who believe before they die.”
But God says, “I AM the living God, the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.” 1 Timothy 4:10, 11.

You have heard that it was said, “Some people are impossible to save; their stubborn will is just too strong!”
But God says, “With Me nothing is impossible; no one is stronger than Me!” Matt. 19:25, 26; 1 Cor. 10:22.

You have heard that it was said, “God wishes He could reconcile all the estranged on earth and in the heavens, but He has to have cooperation from those on earth; He can’t do it alone. As for those estranged in the heavens, they’re hopeless.”
But God says, “Through Christ I will reconcile all to Myself (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.” Colossians 1:20, 21.

You have heard that it was said, “For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, all those who are in Christ shall be vivified.”
But God says, “For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.” 1 Cor. 15:22.

You have heard that it was said, “Seek God and you’ll be saved. Your salvation depends on how you exercise your free will. If you’re lost, it will be your own fault.”
But God says, “No one is seeking Me. All avoid Me. Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of My mercy.” Romans 3:11, 12; 9:16.

You have heard that it was said, “The second death will be eternal; there’s no escaping the lake of fire.”
But God says, “The last enemy is being abolished: death.” 1 Corinthians 15:26.

You have heard that it was said, “When God doesn’t give the person the chance to hear the Gospel, it’s because He knows they would have rejected it anyway.”
But God says, “My saving grace makes its advent to all humanity. Jesus enlightens every soul who enters the world, and He will draw all to Himself.” Titus 2:11; Jn. 1:9; 12:32.

You have heard that it was said, “The subjection of all to Christ will, in many cases, involve compulsion, rather than the reception of a body of glory.”
But God says, “Christ will transfigure the body of humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself. Every tongue will acclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, by Holy Spirit.” 1 Cor. 12:3; Phil. 2:9-11; 3:21.

You have heard that it was said, “All mankind is condemned in Adam, but only some of them will receive justification in Christ.”
But God says, “Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life’s justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.” Romans 5:18, 19.

You have heard that it was said, “God wills all mankind be saved, but that’s really just wishful thinking.”
But God says, “The Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world, annulling the acts of the Adversary! My will is to save all, and I operate all in accord with the counsel of My will.” John 1:29; 1 Jn. 3:8; 1 Tim. 2:1-6; Eph. 1:11.

You have heard that it was said, “God expects something from us (to exercise our free will) before His grace will be of any benefit to us. God loves His enemies, and will give the most ungrateful and wicked among them the wages of sin (death) forever.”
But God says, “And if you are loving those loving you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are loving those loving them. And if you should be doing good to those doing good to you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are doing the same. And if you should ever be lending to those from whom you are expecting to get back, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are lending to sinners, that they may get back the equivalent. Moreover, be loving your enemies, and be doing good, and be lending, expecting nothing from them, and your wages will be vast in the heavens, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.” Luke 6:32-35.

#293

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #57

INFANT SALVATION

Believers in “eternal torment” are divided in their opinion about the fate of infants who die.

Some, who believe in God’s sovereign election of the “few,” also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. I have heard that John Calvin wrote, “There are babies a span long in hell”.

Others (Arminians) consider this unfair, and assert that infants who die will spend eternity in heavenly bliss. This of course is true, but not because the child is innocent. It’s true because the Scriptures teach that God intends to save everyone from everything that they need to be saved from.

A few years ago there was a story in a Montreal paper about an Ohio lady who drowned her baby in the bathtub. Her defense was that she loved the baby so much that she wanted to make sure that her child would not have to suffer forever in hell. After serving a sentence she remarried, had another child and drowned it for the same reason. She trusted that God would forgive her because her intention, though warped by false theology, was for the good of her children.
The jury decided that she was mentally ill, BUT WAS SHE? The simple pragmatic fact, if Arminians are right, is that her two infants will spend eternity in heavenly bliss because she loved them so much that she insured, by killing them, that this will be so.

Apparently they believe that there is a magical split-second in time before which a child, if they die, will go to heaven, and after which, if they die will spend eternity suffering in hell. They call this “the age of accountability”.

If I believed this nonsense I might take a gun into the largest maternity ward in Toronto and before the police arrived, kill every infant who had just been born. This would cause an enormous amount of suffering to the parents, but this wouldn’t matter much in the long run, because probably most of them (according to Arminian theology) are destined to suffer forever in hell anyway, so why not save their babies from the same fate?

Don’t try to argue that what I would be doing would be wrong *(Thou Shalt Not Kill). The fact remains that my act would, in fact insure the baby’s eternal salvation. If Arminians are right, then infanticide would certainly be one of the most effective ways of “saving souls”. Besides, God forgives murder, especially when it is done for such a noble, though misguided cause. Sure, they would lock me away in an institution, but I would spend my life reveling in the glow of the emotional high of knowing that I had, beyond any shadow of a doubt (even in the mind of Arminians ) guaranteed the salvation of the babies that I had killed.

Besides, Christians kill others in war for less worthy causes than preventing others from suffering forever.

Folks, the actual truth about the matter is much more sane and blessed. The Scriptures teach that salvation is all of the Lord, and He will not fail to save everyone of us according to His own timing. No one will be able to boast in His presence and say “I have saved my self from eternal hell by exercising my faith in God’s provision.” God will get all of the glory for everyone’s salvation.

The important issue never should be “what is right or what is wrong”. The only really important issue is, “What is God going to do with the person who is wrong?!” The Scriptures teach that God will fit every one of us into His master-plan in a positive way, and He will use our temporary involvement with sin to teach us the lessons that He wants us to learn. As my Dad often says, “That’s what makes Him God!”

(Afterthought) - If abortionists are, for all practical purposes, among the most effective “soul-savers” in the world, why do Arminian Christians get so upset with them?!

#294

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #58

The Intimate Sovereign Control Of God

The Bible:
God is in intimate sovereign control over what the Bible means to each individual. God also controls the extent to which we will try to change the mind of others about the meaning of the Bible, and He controls the extent to which we will be successful in changing the mind of others.
I personally believe that the Bible teaches the following things about -

THE WILL: God is in intimate sovereign control over the will of every created being. The only “free will” that anyone has is to choose in the direction of the strongest influence. Every choice we make is the product of influences that have been brought to bear upon us in the past, plus the influence that is being brought upon to bear upon us right now, and God sovereignly controls these influences. We are accountable for every choice but we are not responsible for it; God is. Every choice we make is the only one we could have made, and God will see to it that the result of every choice will be used to fit us into His master-plan in our own unique way. All loss is temporary. Even Esau’s loss was only a loss from the human point of view. From God’s point of view Esau was fulfilling His predetermined plan. Esau’s apparent loss was God’s way of fitting Esau into His master-plan in His own unique way. Even rewards are predetermined, and are the result of responses to God’s undefeatable grace. God’s grace can only be resisted temporarily, for the purpose of teaching us lessons. We are not robots, but we do have one thing in common with robots. Everything we are is the product of causality. The Bible calls us “vessels,” some of honor, and some of dishonor, with most of us somewhere in between. Satan’s greatest delusion is that he thinks he has a free will. Many believers in Christ suffer from this same delusion, but God is in intimate sovereign control over every delusion. God will never influence His creatures against their will, but in every case He will influence their wills to change, for their own good, and for His own glory. Any suffering that follows the great white throne of judgment will be for the purpose of influencing our will for our own good. Everyone is believing what they are supposed to be believing at any given point in time, and they will not change their beliefs until God wants them to.

SALVATION: God is in intimate sovereign control over everyone’s salvation. The essential meaning of salvation is that God will change every negative thing that happened into something better that it happened than if it had not happened. And God will do it for every human and every evil spirit, including Satan. Salvation is a process that will be completed for the first fruits of election at the first resurrection, and for the rest of us after the second resurrection. God is in intimate sovereign control of the timing of that process, and He will not fail to fit everyone in a positive way into His master-plan. All of the negative consequences of sin and evil will be transformed for everyone. God will not just make it up to us. He will not just do a patch-up job. He will not just bring things back to where they were before sin came on the scene; but He will see to it that a far greater glory will result for everyone because sin temporarily prevailed than if it had not. I count it a great privilege and a gift from God that He has allowed me to see these things in the Bible. Only a comparatively few people see these things, so I consider myself especially blessed. I also believe that God is in intimate sovereign control over the reaction of everyone who reads these words.
GOD IS IN INTIMATE SOVEREIGN CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING ALL OF THE TIME.
What a wonderful thing to be able to believe.

#295

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #59

MY OPINION

In my opinion, people who feel motivated to defend the doctrine of endless hell have been chosen by God to be vessels of the grossest dishonor, regardless as to how righteous the rest of their life appears to be. They have already sunk to the lowest level possible of moral debauchery.

In my opinion, the greatest of all manifestations of God’s grace in action is that people can believe in endless hell and not go stark-raving mad.

In my opinion, the Bible teaches universal transformation. In other words, it teaches that God will change every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings that Satan must yet endure.

In my opinion, at some point in the future, God will reveal to everyone that the evangelical doctrine of endless hell is the blackest part of the canvas upon which God will paint the exceeding richness of His undefeatable grace.

In my opinion, everything that a person does is because they have to do it. In other words, everyone always responds to the strongest influence at any given point in time. It is God alone Who controls the interplay between good and evil, and He will work everything out for everyone’s good in due time.

In my opinion, Satan, and all wicked beings are only doing what God wants them to do within the wise counsel of His will. He wants everyone to rebel against His revealed will to the extent that He allows them to. Everyone will try to influence others to the extent that they feel they should, but they will only be as successful as God wants them to be.

In my opinion, people who claim to be “saved” are mistaken when they think they will not receive corrective punishment after their resurrection from the dead. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ removed the enmity between God and His creatures. But wrong attitudes cannot be forgiven. Wrong attitudes must change, and both people who claim to be “saved”, and the rest of us, will receive corrective punishment for a length of time that God will decide for each individual.

In my opinion, people who read this page will say, “You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it’s what the Bible says that counts.” And my reply is, “These opinions of mine are an expression of what I see in the Bible, and are an expression of the kind of God that I see in the Bible.”

In my opinion, it is God who controls how each person interprets the Bible.
In this great truth, I relax.

#296

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #60

CALVINISM / ARMINIANISM

Calvinism is a cruel and unloving profanity.
Arminianism is a proud and self-righteous profanity.

Calvinism is cruel and unloving because it claims that God allows beings to come into existence that deserve to suffer endlessly, and will suffer endlessly, except for a few that God will rescue from such a fate by His irresistible grace.
Arminianism is proud and self-righteous because it claims that only those who receive the proper information, and act on it properly before they die, will avoid suffering endlessly. They claim that God is unable to successfully influence anyone’s will, unless they let Him.

The Calvinist’s god allows millions of beings to come into existence and either can not, or will not, do anything to stop them from suffering forever.

The Arminian’s god lets us down just when we need Him the most. Our greatest need is a change in our stubborn will. The Arminian god either cannot, or will not meet us, on this, the level of our greatest need.

A profanity is an idea conceived by our sinful hearts. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are profanities. Against the black background of these profanities God will paint the glorious masterpiece of Universal Transformation.

The truth of Universal Transformation solves all the irreconcilable differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. It recognizes that our “free will” is the freedom to choose only in the direction of the strongest influence, and that God is in intimate sovereign control over all influences.

Each person is being fitted into God’s master-plan in God’s own special way for them. Each person responds to their own unique set of “strongest influences.” And ultimately, when the time period of the ages has ended, God will have transformed the consequences of everyone’s choices into something glorifying to Himself, and beneficial to the chooser.

It is unavoidable that how we think about God will affect our state of being. We tend to become like the god we worship. The one who puts their faith in Calvinism, tends to become cruel and unloving. The one who puts their faith in Arminianism, tends to become proud and self-righteous. If a Calvinist is not cruel and unloving, or, if an Arminian is not proud and self-righteous, it is entirely due to the intervention of God’s undefeatable grace. God often operates through people in spite of what they believe.

God’s grace can only be resisted if God wants to teach us lessons that could be learned no other way.
But ultimately, God’s grace is undefeatable.

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are built upon the false foundation of “endless hell”. When this foundation has been replaced, the differences between them become irrelevant.

The profanity of the doctrine of “endless suffering in hell” is also part of the black background upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece. Without fail, God will, in due time, transform all deceptions, delusions, and false doctrines, into something better that they temporarily prevailed than if they had not. And He will do this for everyone, without exception.

#297

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #61

Consequences

I, Rodger Tutt, had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to love or respect an endless - hell god. My breakdown was caused by my fear of what God might do to me since I was unable to love or respect Him.
One of the great comforts that helped me to recover was learning that many other people have suffered with the same problem. The following quote is from THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL HELL TORMENTS OVERTHROWN by Samuel Richardson, edited by Thomas Whittemore, and published by him in 1833. On page 85, Whittemore says that Richardson wrote this book nearly 200 years before 1833.

First of all, there is what Richardson wrote nearly 200 years before 1833: “The doctrine of endless hell torments hath caused many to murder themselves, taking away their own lives by poison, stabbing, drowning, hanging, strangling, and shooting themselves, casting themselves out of windows, and from high places, to break their necks and by other kinds of death, that they might not live to increase their sin, and increase their torments in hell.”

Now here is what Whittemore the editor, wrote at the bottom of the page nearly 200 years later in 1833:
“Here we see the same dreadful effects attended the doctrine of endless misery nearly 200 years ago which attend it now. It was then the cause of anxiety, despair, and suicide, as we suppose it always was before, where fully believed, and as we know it has been of late years. Let posterity know, that within the last ten years, there have been a large number of suicides, which must be attributed to the doctrine of endless torment. That doctrine makes men melancholy; it drives them to despair; they know not what to do; and they sever the brittle thread, Fathers and Mothers, in repeated instances in the United States, have murdered their children, lest they should grow up, and commit sin, and be damned. Can a doctrine which produces such dreadful consequences be the doctrine of God?” End of Quote.

Note that the victims of this theology found no consolation in the Christian gospel. This was my problem too! The question I kept asking myself was, “How can I find comfort in the Christian Gospel when I can’t even love or respect its God?”

In my library, I have several dozens of books, most of which I have read, and several hundred cassettes, by 29 different speakers, all of which I have listened to, some of them many times, by men who believe that the Bible (correctly translated) teaches universal transformation; that is, that God will eventually change all suffering into something better that it happened. These books and tapes answer, many times over, the arguments that I have read in seven, (plus parts of other) books in support of the idea that the Bible teaches never ending suffering for part of God’s creation.

In addition to these sources, Hurley Books, Westmoreland, New Hampshire, lists 463 universalist books that can be purchased from them. It will be a comfort to many, as it was to me, to learn that there are so many people who see this kind of God in the Bible.

It is my great joy in life to make this information available to many people.
God will use all my efforts as He sees fit.
In this great truth I relax!

#298

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #62

Good News

Many people are unable to believe on a Lord Jesus Christ who would allow anyone to want to, or have to suffer endlessly in hell. Because they cannot love or respect such a Christ, they are unable to put their trust in Him in a way that produces assurance of salvation. For these people, the following information will be good news:
GOD IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANYONE TO WANT TO, OR HAVE TO SUFFER FOREVER!

Some versions of the Bible have been mistranslated. The Greek noun “aion” means “age”, not eternal. And the Greek adjective “aionious” means “of the ages”, not forever or everlasting. The Greek text clearly teaches that the ages were made by God for a purpose. Ephesians 3:11 (“eternal purpose” should read “purpose of the ages”). They had a beginning, 11Tim 1:9 (“before the world began” should read “before times eonian”). And collectively, they will have an ending, Hebrews 9:26 (“in the end of the world” should read “at the conclusion of the eons”). The context of a verse doesn’t necessitate the use of the word “eternal.” Even when referring to the attributes of God, the use of the word “eonian” doesn’t mean that His attributes will change at the end of the ages. But at that point in time He will cease to be the “eonian God.” He will no longer need to manifest mercy, longsuffering, or forgiveness, for His “eonian purpose” will have been completed and God will be “All In All” 1 Corinthians 15:28.

The phrase “forever and ever” is a mistranslation. In the Greek, the phrase sometimes reads “for the age of the ages” which refers to the last age, probably the one following the millennial age. It could appropriately be called “the age of consummation.” In other verses, the phrase reads “for the ages of the ages” which probably refers to the millennial age and the age of consummation together. In the same way that “King of kings” and “Lord of lords”: separate one from others, so does the phrase “age of ages.” And in the same way that *“holies of the holies” would separate the holy place and the most holy place from the rest of the tabernacle, so does the phrase “the ages of the ages” separate the last two ages from the previous ones. The Sinaitic manuscript actually says “holies of Holies” instead of “Holy Places”.

The true, Biblical teaching about the ages has been obscured through faulty translating. The translators introduced their own ideas into the text instead of using the proper English equivalents, “eon” and “eonian.”

Not until the sixth century, did the belief in endless hell become prevalent within the Christian church. It is true that modern Greeks use “the ages of the ages” to denote an endless succession of ages, but this is due to the influence of the Greek Orthodox Church. That this expression “the eons of the eons” does not mean an endless succession of ages is established beyond doubt by comparing Revelation 11:14,15 with 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. In Revelation 11, Christ is said to reign “for the eons of the eons.” In 1 Corinthians 15, the reign of Christ is said to end. Therefore, if He reigns for the eons of the eons and His reign ends, the eons of the eons cannot be endless. Furthermore, Hebrews 9:26 says that the eons, collectively, end, so regardless of their number, they will collectively end.

To be sure there will be judgment. Wrongs will be righted. To those who have sinned much it will mean much indignation and fury, affliction and distress, Romans 2:8-9. But God corrects and disciplines only for good. Even hardened sinners who have often cursed Him, will be thankful for the strokes that bring them back to God. Each one gets only what is good for them in the judgment, not to damn them forever, but to prepare them for God’s salvation. If necessary, God will use a negative manifestation of His love, but negative or positive, He will keep loving, and keep loving until He has elicited a loving response from everyone.

#299

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #63

DEATH SHALL BE ABOLISHED

Argument:
“This only means that believers will never die again.”

Bob Evely
I would simply suggest that these folks are ignoring the context of the 1 Corinthians 15 passage (ALL in Adam … ALL in Christ, etc) and the many other ALL passages in Scripture. It is a case where their minds are made up that only believers will ever be saved; so they find it necessary to place limitations on what the Scriptures actually say, lest their doctrines fall apart.

Tony Nungesser
Death is abolished for the believer AT HIS PRESENCE. In 1 Cor.15:25 death is abolished AFTER Christ hands over the kingdom to God and all sovereignty, authority and power are done away. Then the rest of mankind will have death abolished for them and only then.

Kenneth Larsen
For me, 1 Cor. 15:20-28 is where the abolition of death is best detailed. And the subject is clearly all mankind. Plus, it says plainly that it is the LAST enemy, clearly detailing the subjection of all which must occur BEFORE. And there are clearly still kings during the New Jerusalem eon, so human authorities have yet to be nullified; Christ’s mission isn’t complete. Rev. 21:24. Death will be abolished for all mankind in three stages -1 Cor. 15:22-24. Then there are verses like Romans 5:18, 19.

“For this was the Son of God manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary.” 1 John 3:8b (CLV) That includes the act of leading Adam and Eve into the knowledge of good and evil. Christ was manifested to annul not only sin, but also death. For the second death to be endless would mean that the acts of the Adversary would never be annulled.

If only believers never die again, then death would be abolished when Christ returns, wouldn’t it? That would be the consummation or “end.” Why then is there the 1,000 years? Isn’t Satan an enemy? Yet the Bible says that death is the last enemy. Satan is still rebellious after the 1,000 years.

I would ask them, “When do you think death will be abolished?”

If they say, “When Christ returns”, I would ask, “And the events of
Rev. 20:7-15, do they occur after or before Christ’s second coming?”

If they say, “After”, I would ask them if they had read 1 Cor. 15:20-28 lately. I would encourage them to do so and to notice that death will be the last enemy, and God will abolish it. If they agree with that, I would ask them, how can death be abolished when Christ returns if Satan will later attack the saints; wouldn’t that mean that there are still enemies besides death in existence? Wouldn’t the fact that the nations will be deceived and join Satan in opposing God prove that God will still have many enemies at that time? I would point out that 1 Cor. 15:24-27 shows that Christ will give up His kingdom to God the Father once all enemies are subjected and death is abolished. And I would mention one of the parallel passages in Mk. 12:36, which shows that Christ will be at God’s right hand UNTIL a certain point in time, which is detailed in 1 Cor. 15. Then I would point out how Rev. 22:1-3 shows clearly that the consummation of 1 Cor. 15:24, when Christ will surrender the throne to His Father, will not yet have arrived during the New Jerusalem eon.

My POV is that God would not name the lake of fire the second death, make that death permanent, and yet claim that death had been abolished. It simply doesn’t make sense to me. To argue that death being abolished only means that believers will never die again is similar to saying that slums being abolished only means no new slums will be created, leaving the existing slums unchanged.

James Coram
The context has in view all mankind (not simply believers):
Death was long ago instituted (“to die, you shall be dying”); and yet
this institution which, at present, is very much still in effect, one
day, will be abolished.
concordant.org/expohtml/Huma … cor15.html
See article above on this point also, for the likeness/parallel I
draw between, on the one hand, slavery, and on the other, death.

#300

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #64

THE CIRCUMCISION EVANGEL VERSUS THE UNCIRCUMCISION EVANGEL
Bob Evely

As to the “why’s” of God’s plan; we can only speculate. The fact is that no man is deserving of grace, and God’s method is to begin with a group He has called (the body of Christ) to display His grace to the remainder of humanity and to proclaim the evangel … all toward the end that grace and salvation is realized by all.

As for the words of Jesus, we must remember these pertain to the kingdom to come upon the earth … the restoration of Israel’s kingdom. In many of Jesus’ words we see that the “rules” are very works-based. But later came a more full expression of grace, when God had demonstrated that NONE could earn righteousness thru works … and with the “new rules” that Paul subsequently talked about, it is all grace and no works to boast of.

When Paul talks about the fact that some, based on behavior, would not enter the kingdom … He is telling his audience that as it pertains to the earthly kingdom, these folks would be excluded. He says this to instill within them the idea that as a result of God’s grace, they too should avoid these behaviors. The main difference in evangel’s is that the Circumcision evangel told folks … have faith and works. Paul’s Uncircumcision evangel is simply have faith, as God has accomplished what man could not. We must remember that as we read various parts of the Scriptures that mankind is a work in progress. When we read of God’s anger, or folks being excluded from the earthly kingdom, etc. … this is a part of the process, thru which God is working toward His ultimate, eventual goal … the salvation and reconciliation of all.

When folks tend to ask questions about specific objections, always try to get them to first look at the basic overall plan that God has in store for mankind. In other words, we must consider the Bible in total first to see how God is working in all ages … and then we can worry about the specific questions. To jump into the questions too quickly takes the focus off of God’s revelation in total.