The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Some help with 2nd Corinthians 2:15, 16

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#1

Hi all;
I was just reading through a portion of Ray Stedman’s expository study of 2nd Corinthians and came across this passage: “For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.” (So far, so good), but then the next verse (16) says: “To the latter (those who are perishing) from death to death, but to the former a fragrance from life to life. And who is adequate for these things?”

There seems to be a distinction here that our “sweet aroma of Christ” is life to life for those being saved, but death to death to those perishing. Why the same sweet aroma producing two very different things in two different groups, when verse 15 sounds initially positive? Shouldn’t it be producing only life in all? How do we understand this/ does this fit within the framework of universalism, and if so, how?

Thanks for your help on this.

#2

I just posted on this on another board today. The other post was on death being destroyed.

This is something I’ve been mulling the past few days. I woke the other day with the words “you have been set free from the law of sin and death”.

For me this goes back to the garden. There are two trees in the center of the garden. Its possible that they are the same tree, since they occupy the same space. The TOKOGAE is flesh, which is where sin is condemned. It is the law in stone that brings death, if you eat of it you will surely die. It is duality, good and evil, right and wrong. Male and female, the two cherubs. The covering cast over all faces, the veil of death(the tokogae is our senses/physical world), the veil was woven with cherubs.

The same law that brings death to those who are carnal minded, brings life to those who walk in the spirit. The gospel is sweet to us, but death to those who are perishing. The sharp two edged sword that divides is pain and death to those but freedom and love to us. The fire of God’s presence is torture for those who have the spirit of fear, but cleansing, beautiful, divine love to those who Fear HIm.

We are said to have a heart of stone(law), but given a heart of flesh. We obviously literally didn’t have a heart of stone, but the same heart is transformed from a dead thing to a living thing.

If you were to visualize this its like this:

Good-Life-Evil
cherub-sword-cherub
male-one-female (I’m not saying female is evil, just part of the duality)

Christ is the tree of life, christ is in us individually, and corporately as the one standing in the midst of the lamp stands. He is the sharp two edged sword of fire that is between the cherubim. The narrow path is the center. IF your eye be full of light, eye is singular.

I don’t know if they are the same trees, but we don’t see the tokogae in Revelation.

#3

My instinctive impression is that believers’ lives present the precious ‘Christ’ to all. But since judgment corresponds to one’s response to Christ, that means that for those who are rejecting him, it leads to "death,"while to the saved who receive him, this exposure to Christ leads to life. So like many texts, we are left to ponder the meaning of such “death,” and whether whatever judgment it implies is to be taken as final. Of course, classic universalists think God can still redeem from death or ‘hell’ and has signaled such an ultimate victory.

#4

I like the way Peterson interprets this passage in The Message. I think it captures well what Paul was trying to communicate.

14-16 In the Messiah, in Christ, God leads us from place to place in one perpetual victory parade. Through us, he brings knowledge of Christ. Everywhere we go, people breathe in the exquisite fragrance. Because of Christ, we give off a sweet scent rising to God, which is recognized by those on the way of salvation—an aroma redolent with life. But those on the way to destruction treat us more like the stench from a rotting corpse.

It is not a statement concerning ECT or the final destination of anyone; but it is a statement of the present reality that some people respond well to the Gospel and in turn embrace the kingdom of life and others reject the Gospel and continue their downward spiral into death and destruction, from death to death, even finding the Gospel to be repulsive.

We are currently providing foster care for the children of a couple that dynamically shows the truth of this passage. My wife and I reach out to both parents with the love of God, praying for them, caring for their children, giving of our lives to bless this couple, and sharing the Gospel as we have opportunity. The father has responded with appreciation and is turning his life around which I trust will lead to increasing abundant life for him. The mother has responded negatively and is making choices that are leading to greater death and destruction in her life, “death to death”.

Sadly many people must hit bottom before they will look up. They must come to the end of themselves before they reach out to God and others. And in His love God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble!

#5

Ok; thanks for the input guys. That helps put some perspective on it.

#6

**“And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.” **(Jn 3:19-20)

Think of light in the verses above as truth. Jesus was hated and put to death specifically because He purposefully shined the light of truth on darkened hearts that could not receive it. Likewise, the sweet aroma of the knowledge [truth] of Him…" imo speaks to the natural union of the spiritually born [illuminated or enlightened] intellect with the truth or light of the gospel: **“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard…” **(Col 1:21-23)

Thus, those who are a fragrance of truth are to those in darkness an aroma from death to death (e.g., those not cleansed to “hear” and “see” as per 1Cor 2:14), but to those also illuminated, that same truth is an aroma from life to life.

I agree with Sherman that no universalist framework is necessary, this is just a spiritual state of affairs in time and space.