The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Speaking in Tongues: Its Power and My Dilemma

Pentecostals often seek to speak in tongues as a drug-like spiritual high, and when they do, they develop the same kind of openness as people playing with a Ouija board. The problem with Ouija boards is that you never know what is coming through–your unconscious, a discarnate spirit, a demon, etc. The dean of our school of education once asked me what I thought of such boards. I replied that demonic entities sometimes come through. The dean was disturbed by this reply because, the preceding night, the education faculty had been playing with a Ouija board at a party, when a demonic entity had taken over and begun talking about Hell. Pentecostals often pride themselves in their deliverance ministries, but these ministries often exorcise evil spirits that have possessed believers through their wrongly motivated pursuit of tongues.

Yet just occasionally, Ouija boards can be the means of genuine contact with the dead. Harvard professor William James is considered by many the father of modern psychology. He was a good friend of Prof. James Hyslop of Columbia U. Both men had studied parapsychology and pledged that whoever died first would try to contact the other from beyond the grave to verify that he was still alive. WJ died first and, since a year passed with no contact, Hyslop thought contact would never be made.

But then Hyslop was contacted by an unknown couple in Ireland. They had been playing with their Ouija Board, when an insistent message from a William James came through: “Find James Hyslop and give him this message: remember the red pyjamas!” The Irish couple had dismissed this message as too weird, but it was continually repeated and this made them curious enough to research the names. At first, Hyslop dismissed this message as nonsense, but then he recalled an academic conference he and WJ had attended in Paris. It was a cold wintry day when they arrived and Hyslop had forgotten to bring pyjamas. The only kind he could find were a gaudy red pair and WJ had mercilessly teased him about his loud taste. Evidently WJ had been trying for a year to communicate this to Hyslop because it was so concrete and therefore hard for Hyslop’s unconscious to distort. So WJ apparently succeeded where Houdini had failed to keep a promise of postmortem contact.

I know folks here, would be GREATLY disappointed…if I didn’t share the non-denominational site, Got Questions perspective:

And even the Calvinist site CARM perspective:

Can a Christian use a Ouija board?

When I was a boy, I was mesmerized by the interpretations of tongues during our Communion services. The Risen Lord was allegedly speaking eloquently to our congregation. I thought these messages should be recorded and collected for further reflection. So I asked an elder if this was being done and he said No, adding, “Messages in tongues bring inspiration and excitement to our services, but they shouldn’t be taken too seriously because they’re not Scripture.” My response: “They either come from Jesus, like they purport, or they don’t. If they don’t, they should be banned as false revelation. But if they do, they should be revered, recorded, and later studied.” I concluded from his remarks, that even many Pentecostals don’t actually believe that these messages from tongues come from the Lord–and they don’t even recognize their skepticism about this fact.

This is not my experience. Praying in tongues has always sharpened my thinking and praying. My dullness comes from neglecting tongues, not overindulging. Indeed, I would argue it is impossible to overuse this capacity, since it is our spirit praying perfect prayers under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As I mentioned above:

Tongues being misused? Yes, when causing distraction or confusion to other people. But overused? No: underused; neglected; misunderstood; wrongly rejected.

Sorry to seem disagreeable, Berserk, but here again…I must disagree.

I believe occult techniques are prohibited by the Holy Spirit for our own good.

I don’t care if it’s channeling, or past lives regression, or Ouija boards, these occult techniques are inspired by demons. And all evil spirits are lying spirits. These fallen angels observe us, and may try to influence us and capture us, even with amazing and genuine information:

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.

Acts 16:17-19.

(Thanks for the links warning about Ouija boards, Holy-Fool-P-Zombie.)

PS Seeking to be contacted and counseled by deceased saints, who dwell in heaven (or who are purported to surround us here on earth, à la, ‘the great cloud of witnesses’ of Hebrews 12:1), seems to be all the rage in some charismatic circles. But again, I think this trend is deceptive and most probably demonic.

The essence of evil deception is tell the truth to set up a lie. That is what the Serpent did in the Garden. The Ouija board can be the source of astounding authentic contact with the dead. But this authenticity can quickly become just a deceptive tool to draw seekers into deception.

In my experience 90% of charismatic manifestations are of the flesh, but the 10% that are authentic still make the quest for spiritual gifts eminently worthwhile. Spurious tongues can do more harm than good, though, and can lead to cynicism and disillusionment with the Christian faith by raising questions about the work of the Holy Spirit in general.

A major reason why most glossolalia is of the flesh is the way seekers are pressed “to just speak it out.” People have short attention spans and are unwilling to spend lengthy periods in prayer vigils to receive the Spirit’s gifts. So they are admonished, “Just step out in faith, speak it out, and the Spirit will take over your tongue.” Well, the Spirit doesn’t jump just because we crack our whip! And it is the Spirit Who chooses the time and place of our blessing. By forgetting this, and impatiently speaking prematurely in tongues, most Pentecostals succumb to the flesh and utter uninspired gibberish.

3 points in reply:

(1) If you read the learned article on glossai in Kittel’s massive multi-volume Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, you will find ancient examples of the use of glossai as a reference to the gibberish spoken by the Delphic prophetess that need to be interpreted by a male prophet. As a reference to ecstatic speech, glossai need not refer to human languages. And that is the cultural background of Corinthian glossolalia.

(2) As many scholarly commentaries recognize, Paul identies tongues as “angel language” in 1 Corinthians 13:1 and thus labels Corinthian tongues speakers as “zealots of spirits” in 14:12. “Spirits” is a standard term for “angels” (see Hebrews 1;7).

(3) The tongues spoken at Pentecost are not normative for later examples of tongues. The tongues in Acts 2 are label “prophesying” because they are understood by outside observers. The tongues elsewhere (Acts 19:6 and 1 Cor 12 and 14 are carefully distinguished from prophesying and are therefore gibberish as far as the speaker knows. Remember, the tongues spoken in Cornelius’s house (10:44-47) and at Ephesus (19:1-6) are neither understood nor interpreted and are therefore gibberish to the speakers. But Paul interprets his gibberish as angel speech (1 Cor 13:1; 14:12).

Orb course, I have given examples in which some modern tongues are known human languages.

NEVER! Rather demons occasionally impersonate some deceased person.

What follows is a true story. My sister-in-law had a friend—we’ll call her Susan. One day, Susan went to her friend’s house for a visit—we’ll call her friend “Betty.” Susan and Betty didn’t have anything to do, and so they thought they would fool around with the Ouiji board that belonged to Betty’s mother. To their amazement, words were spelled that the girls hadn’t deliberately made. A supposedly deceased person gave his name and the years in which he lived. They looked the name up in a history book and found it! —though it was in modern spelling in the history book, whereas the Ouiji board spirit used an archaic spelling. The history book stated that the person had been a criminal and had been executed. When they asked it what had been its crime, the whole board jumped around—which the girls had interpreted as anger.

Then the spirit asked the girls an unusual question, “Is there still a God?” Now many people have asked, “Is there a God?” but I doubt that any human being has ever asked, “Is there still a God?” The question implies that the inquirer once knew that God existed, but something happened so that he never experienced God thereafter, and wondered whether or not He still exists.

My view is that an evil spirit impersonating the deceased criminal, communicated with the girls via the Ouiji board. I believe that demons (evil spirits) are fallen angels. When they were angels, they knew God existed. But after they departed from God they have never experienced God in any way. So they sometimes wonder if He still exists.

Or the demon is simply imposing a clever - but simple question…for the purpose of causing a person to doubt, the existence of God.

So I paraphrase this from memory.

“Without faith it is impossible to please God”

Just a footnote here. In Native American spirituality, there are centuries of communicating with spirits. But NEVER has a Native American, used an Ouija board.

Or maybe an Ouiji board has a simple, scientific explantion - called the ideomotor response. Which Matt Slick from CARM mentioned, in a previous link.

How do you know that no Native American has ever used an Ouija board?

It’s not part of their spiritual tradition. And I have hung around enough Native Americans and ceremonies. It’s NOT part of Native American spirituality. Of course, those not on a spiritual path - can do anything. Whether Native, Chinese, Zombie, etc.

Interesting article. I have STRONG issues, with anyone being a spiritual medium. But their warning on demonic forces - is very interesting.

Seems like quackery to me.

Paidion,
Your example is irrelevant given my concession that a Ouija board can put one in touch with tdemonic impersonators and my warning not to use this board. But you have no idea whether this is always the case and the William James case may well be an important exception. After all, there is solid evidence that the righteous dead sometimes manifest their survival to the living.

The Wiki article I alluded to, will present different perspectives - on the Ouija board… Anywhere from a scientific perspective, with the ideomotor response… To speaking with the dead or demons. Personally, I seek scientific explanations first. Then I look for supernatural ones. Even when it comes to zombies, from the possible Zombie Apocalypse.

And supernatural happenings is like describing snow to Africans - before mass communication. Just because they haven’t seen it - or experienced it - snow is real, nevertheless.

True. But in the Native American world, where spirits are an integral part of the equation…they don’t use Ouija boards in ceremony. NOT that what you say, may well be possible. But in most cases, a scientific explanation will suffice. After all, before the Roman Catholic Church conducts an exorcism…That have medical experts certify first, that there is no organic disease or abnormal psychosis present.

“A leader takes people where they want to go. A great leader takes people where they don’t necessarily want to go, but ought to be.”-- Rosalynn Carter


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You can’t “try” to have faith or to speak in tongues. Both assets must be received as a surprise gift, as if you have been lovingly ambushed by God. Here are 4 principles that experience shows will help you break through to authentic speaking in tongues:
(1) Acknowledge the Spirit’s sovereign timing. The Holy Spirit doesn’t jump just because we crack our whip! Don’t expect the Spirit’s outpouring in your first extended prayer vigil.

(2) Therefore, recognize the need to seek the Giver, not the gift. Yes, you must “strive for spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:31).” But do that this way: ask God to give you the gift of tongues, and then, recognize God’s policy: “You will find Me if you seek Me with all your heart (Jeremiah 29:13).”

(3) Wait on God–and I do mean “wait”-- until you get lost in praise and your words seem cheap and inadequate to express your soaring delight in the mystery of God’s beauty and tender love: “Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart… But be silent before the Lord, and wait patiently for Him (Psalm 37:4, 7).”

(4) Then, out of that sense of inadequate speech, the Spirit will give you a heavenly language and, as you surrender to it, your intimate connection with the Spirit will intensify to the point where you are engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love and an unimaginable sweetness of God’s presence. Church worship will never be the same again. You will thus learn one way to obey the command to “pray in the Spirit (Ephesians 6:18)” and will now be capable of far more effective prolonged intercessory prayer.

Present your “solid evidence”!
There is no solid evidence that any of the dead even exist.

The apostle Paul indicated that unless the dead are raised, we might as well eat, drink, and be merry, for in that case, this life would be all that we have!

…If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” (1 Cor 15:32)

And the dead have not yet been raised, and will not be raised until the last day. Jesus said that He would raise up on the last day those who believe in Him (that is who entrust themselves to Him)

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Jesus also told the dying thief, “Today you shall be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43).”
Jesus tells Martha, “Whoever lives and believes in me shall never die (John 11:26).”
Moses and Elijah return to converse with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration (Mark 9:1-9).
The righteous dead are alive in heaven and able to speak in Rev. 6:10.
Paul implies that at death he will immediately be enjoying Christ’s presence: “I am hard pressed between the 2 (choices): my desire is to depart and be with Christ; for that is far better.; for to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you (Philippians 1:23-24).”

But the Bible’s teaching about conscious survival immediately after death is not evidence. The NDEs and ADCs and the accompanying videos are far more impressive evidence for immediate postmortem survival than the evidence for Christ’s resurrection, which, as a Christian, I of course embrace. I must assume that you have not bothered to read the cases and watch the posted videos. It is absurd to dismiss all evidence that refutes your preconceptions as demonic. A Muslim could of course dismiss the NT testimonials to Jesus’ resurrection as demonic.

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Let me add to Berserk’s talk. There is a book called Christ and the Pipe. The Pipe is the most sacred instrument of prayer, for the Native Americans. And the author is a Roman Catholic priest. And this book is a dialogue between Roman Catholic Clergy and Lakota medicine men and women. The author talks about the spirits of heaven, hell, and the earth. And the spirits even said something, that SHOCKED the medicine people. If the Catholic priests continued, in the right way… they could ALSO hear and see the spirits.

The problem is that there is something called Sacred Tradition, in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. And EVEN the Methodist Church, emphasizes Primary Scriptura over Sola Scriptura. Where they also take into consideration Sacred Tradition, reason and spiritual experience. And the Quaker tradition, puts spiritual experience even above Holy Scripture (or perhaps on an equal footing).

Jesus also told the dying thief, “Today you shall be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43).”

There was no punctuation in Hellenistic Greek. If I were to translate that verse, I would place the comma AFTER the word “today.” Thusly:

And he said to him, “Truly I’m telling you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

Someone has told me, “No one talks like that! Whoever says, ‘I’m telling you today’?” Yet, I’m sure nearly everyone has heard someone say, “I’m telling you right now…” It’s a manner of speaking.

Jesus tells Martha, “Whoever lives and believes in me shall never die (John 11:26).”

No, He didn’t. He said, “Whoever lives and believes in me shall not be dying into the age.”
I think He was talking about the next age—the age to come. Whoever believes in Him will not remain in a state of death right into the next age, but will be raised to life by Jesus on the last day of this present age.

Moses and Elijah return to converse with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration (Mark 9:1-9).
No, they didn’t. Peter, James, and John saw a VISION. They saw our Lord transfigured, and saw Moses and Elijah in a vision.
Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.” (Matt 17:9)

The righteous dead are alive in heaven and able to speak in Rev. 6:10.
Doctrine cannot be established from the book of Revelation. For the whole book is John’s description of what he saw in his vision. He also saw in his vision “a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.” That in no way implies that such a beast existed or will exist.

Have I missed these? Where are they?_

[quote=“Paidion, post:41, topic:13264”]
Jesus also told the dying thief, “Today you shall be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43).”

Paidion: "There was no punctuation in Hellenistic Greek. If I were to translate that verse, I would place the comma AFTER the word “today.” Thusly:
And he said to him, “Truly I’m telling you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

You miss the point: Jesus uses the formula, “Truly I say to you” and its variant “Truly, truly I say to you” many times and never once is it followed by a modifier like “today.” That’s why no academic scholar translates it in the way the fits your bias.

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