The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The 2300 Evenings and Mornings of Daniel 8:14

Theology Eschatology
#1

Dan 8:14 And he saith unto me, Till evening—morning two thousand and three hundred, then is the holy place declared right.

You may have seen my thread that I believe that Jesus will return to usher in the Lord’s Day in 2040. I based that on what I see as the Jubilee periods and using 40 Jubilees from the year of Jesus’s resurrection.

I’m currently investigating Daniel 8:14 in reference to this as well.

The verse appears to referring to a language that may be emphasizing the Daily Sacrifice which is in the evening and morning. Furthermore, the verse before it refers to the Host as well as the Sanctuary being trampled under foot:

Dan 8:13 'And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when is the vision of the continual sacrifice , and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down?

My current belief is that this is referring to both Jerusalem and the Temple being in the hands or subjection of the Gentiles.

I believe at no time during the AD era was the Jerusalem or the Temple not under subjection to the Gentiles. And with Christ, the Temple was no longer the place of worship in 31 AD. However even prior to 31 AD we have the city of under subjection to the Gentiles under Roman Rule. Therefore using my dating of Christ Coming in 2040, I have the following:

2300 (years in Dan 8:14) - 2040 = 260.

According to Chapter 8 of Daniel, the timelines of the 2300 appears to start when the he goat (Greece under Alexander the Great) comes and gains victory over the ram (Persia/Medes) and this is reported as the year 331 BC. Now if I use that in my calculating this gives the following:

331 - 260 = 71

Since there is no year 0, I need to remove a year from 331 BC to subtract the year 260 - so the real answer is:

330 - 260 = 70.

Therefore, I removed 2300 years from the span of 331 BC to 2040 AD and this left 70 years. My theory is that the only time that Jerusalem (host) or the sanctuary (Temple) was not trodden under foot (sovereign or desolated) would be for a 70 year period.

I have read the I Maccabees and understand that there may have been a period of these 70 years around the time of the Hasmonean dynasty. However, finding the timelines is going to be a task to confirm this.

If anyone know of a really detailed break down on the sovereignty of Jerusalem during this time or Temple or City records during this time, I would appreciate the references.

#2

The important verse is:

1Ma_13:41 Thus the yoke of the heathen was taken away from Israel in the hundred and seventieth year.

At that time the “host” has become sovereign and no longer trodden under foot. This would be the case until the Romans lay siege to Jerusalem in 63 BC

The time above is considered to be about 134 BC.

So we have closed in on the 70 years. I think this is hardly a coincidence.

#3

Hi Hewillcome. Sorry I’ve no info on your enquiry but I’m interested in the maths you use above?

#4

Well,I break this down a bit.

I believe that the years mentioned in Genesis 6:4 are referring to Jubilee years:

Gen 6:4 And the Lord God said, My Spirit shall certainly not remain among these men for ever, because they are flesh, but their days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

For more information on that you can go to here at my site: thatdayandhour.info/index.php/20 … t-jubilee/

I believe we are currently in the last cycle of the 120 Jubilees and therefore the next Jubilee if we continue cycling would be in 2040.
I believe that the 80th Jubilee was 31 AD when Jesus was Crucified/Died/Resurrected. For more information on that dating see the following link on my site: thatdayandhour.info/index.php/20 … us-christ/

BTW - if you count backwards from the 80th Jubilee to the 50th you will arrive at the year 1440 BC (The year of the Exodus).

Now to Daniels prophecy in Chapter 8:

Dan 8:13 And I heard one saint speaking, and a saint said to a certain one speaking, How long shall the vision continue, even the removal of the sacrifice, and the bringing in of the sin of desolation; and how long shall the sanctuary and host be trampled?
Dan 8:14 And he said to him, Evening and morning there shall be two thousand and four hundred days; and then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.

I believe the 2300 days are in higher type referring to years and not contiguous. I believe they can only refer to the years where Jerusalem was sovereign and that was only for 70 years. The prophecy begins at 331 BC when Alexander the Great defeats Darius of Persia. The Host (Jerusalem) has been trodden under foot since that time always except for 70 years of the Hasmonian dynasty.

Therefore 331 BC - 70 = 261. This is BC so there is no year 0 so we need to drop a year which gives us 260. Therefore in the BC period of this prophecy there was 260 years where Jerusalem was not sovereign. It continued to be not sovereign since because Roman took ownership. After the Christian era started the there continues to be a trampling under foot of Spiritual Jerusalem.

Therefore, 260 + 2040 (when I believe Christ will return) = 2300 years.

Therefore, I have provide witnesses from the Scriptures that attest to the date.

#5

So do you ‘He will come’ consider yourself a prophet?

Thanks

#6

I do not consider myself one and nor do I consider that I’m not one.

#7

So can you elaborate?

Thanks

#8

Personally, I believe God has revealed these things to me and that I have an obligation to spread that message to others. I’ll let time decide whether it was prophetic.

#9

If I may ask, how did God reveal these truths to you? :wink: If you want folks to believe than you should show where the juice came from. :sunglasses:

#10

I do want people to believe but I know God is going to have who He wants to believe. As for how God speaks to me it is through Truth. I believe the information I’m providing is the Truth.

#11

So Hewillcome, I am totally in your camp. Maybe you should take some time on this forum and peruse the different understandings of universalism, as there are many different and quite interesting takes on the subject. :wink: this may well be the greatest group of minds
on this subject you will run across.

#12

I’m already a believer in universalism. Been so for many years.

I think many universalists get the doctrine wrong. They don’t realize that aionios is not limited duration or any duration. It doesn’t even speak to duration from and end point perspective. It simply refers to a CONTINUING point. Like looking at the horizon, it is telling you that something is on the other side of the horizon but the distance is concealed from you.

Many people don’t consider that Moses wanted to be blotted out of the Book of Life if God would not take away the sins of his people:

Exo 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

#13

But at the end of the day, what did Jesus do for you and humanity? :smiley:

#14

Well He is STILL doing it - saving me through the emulation of Him. At this time, there is only a select group (chosen) to be rule with Him at His coming. This was typed by Moses selection of the Levites. Recall they were to slay their brothers that had sinned by thrusting a sword through them. But in the new covenant that sword is the Word of God.

I’m going to be in that first resurrection - God is faithful to have me there.

#15

Good for you. I hope you will enjoy the first resurrection. Amen :laughing: