The Apostate Church


This article addresses how those who believe in universalism are part of the apostate church. That includes a bunch of us. How would you recommend countering this argument? … /2051.html


Hi nimble,
I’m surprised by his statistics–that most Christians believe in universalism–that is not the case among people of my acquaintance. Maybe I live in a weird bubble.

The “despite a relationship with Christ” is something I take strong exception to. As a universalist, I believe that Scripture teaches that all must and will come into relationship with the Father through Christ. Salvation is to know God.

I don’t have a problem with the idea that others of different religion are able to have some knowledge of God–otherwise it is meaningless to say as Paul asserts, that people “are without excuse”. Those of us who are gifted with more knowledge and faith are all the more responsible to live accordingly. Paul tells us about this in Romans 2.

I don’t know if that helps you at all. There are a bunch of assumptions in the article that I’d disagree with also. The thrust of the article seems to be a fear that the Christian faith is being watered down and compromised. The kind of universalism he’s complaining about is, in my opinion, more likely a symptom of lack of relationship with Christ, than a cause of it. If people don’t have relationship with Christ, how can they understand the value of it and the necessity that all people of every religion enter it also?

But partly the problem is an assumption of the “death deadline” and what it means to “have a relationship with Christ”. If good Aunt Susan dies without “a relationship with Christ”, Land would have her go to hell and be tormented forever despite all the good she did in this life. I salute those–apparently many–who understand the injustice of this in the face of the church’s teachings! She may well be one of those who say to the Lord, “When did I serve you?” And He will answer, “When you did it to the least of these my brethren. Well done, good and faithful servant!” She was working alongside Him all the time and did not know it. Perhaps she could not accept Christ because she was too noble minded to accept the marred picture of Him that was painted for her by his servants!

And there will be others who call him “Lord” but He will say, “I don’t know you.” So much for their “relationship”. But these things are for God to judge.

There’s my .02–and I don’t know if it “counters” the argument, or just runs off on a tangent! :sunglasses:


I agree with all you said Sonja; great post. I wonder how this particular person would feel about a evangelical universalist? Do you think he would cast them in with what he calls the apostate church?


It’s likely that Land is referencing Unitarian Universalism which affirms that there are many paths to God and one religion is as good as another, and not speaking of universal reconciliation as envisioned and affirmed in Scripture. If I wanted to start a conversation with this person, I’d likely start off by asking for clarification of the statements and intent of the article. I’d also be upfront with him about being a Christian Universalist and ask if he’d be interested in discussing UR.


“Universalism is the theological doctrine that all people will eventually be saved despite a relationship with Christ.”

I agree with what all others have already said. By his statement above he shows that he doesn’t understand Biblical Universalism and uses scare tactics to drive his point across.


Our pastor a few Sunday’s back said that he has been told to let go of the hell stuff because it was the 21st century. His reply was that he would never let go. I know that more people are discussing it.


As long as fear remains, they are not yet made perfect.

Teachers of salvation through the motivation of fear are the most wicked I have found. I have seen so much torment in people’s lives who feel guilty for doing or saying something that in normal commonsense living would be acceptable but in the religious world is damnable. It makes me sick.

The apostate church is one that still thrives on fear and uncertainty and despite the author’s opinion, is talking about him.


I agree with Sonia too.

I’ve never heard it taught anywhere in my 25 years of being a Christian :confused: I hope it’s the case, but it would be a surprise!

Btw, the Prophecy News Watch article was originally from … ven-bound/ written by Stephanie Samuel. Maybe we should invite them over here?