Hi steve7150,
Welcome, … it is good to have your contributions. Where are you from?
Stefcui (Steve)
Welcome, … it is good to have your contributions. Where are you from?
Hi Steve,
I’m from the greater NYC area and i found out about this forum because Paidion posted a link on another forum we frequent , thenarrowpath.com
I did read Robin Parry’s book “the Evangelical Universalist” and thought it was awesome.
Where are you from?
I’m from Australia. I live in remote QLD - called Far North Queensland (FNQ). We have the crocodiles and the beautiful scenery of the tropics, as well as the northern aspect of the Great Dividing Range - “the third longest land-based range in the world”. I stumbled onto the site while researching Universalism.
I’m from Australia. I live in remote QLD - called Far North Queensland (FNQ). We have the crocodiles and the beautiful scenery of the tropics, as well as the northern aspect of the Great Dividing Range - “the third longest land-based range in the world”. I stumbled onto the site while researching Universalism.
Wow what a cool sounding place! Do you live there out of choice or do you live there because of work?
Yeah, it’s a beautiful spot. This pic below is where we all work.
http://www.cairnsconvention.com.au/images/hero-accommodation.jpg
This pic is where we live - just 15 minutes from the city center.
http://www.lemontreeart.com.au/img/member/3/large/P323.jpg
We decided to come here on a bit of blind faith that we would love it. My wife and I took the kids traveling through much of Australia for 3 years when they were younger. We did home-schooling out the back of the wagon. When the kids were getting too old to travel anymore (they all have jobs now), so we took a gamble on a new destination that we had never been to. That’s what brought us here, and we love it now. 
Steve! You forgot the second pic. 
Yeah, I had to change the 2nd pic because the first one I tried to use would not display - it was internet protected 
Oh . . . My!!! If we ever have an EU convention, you are SO hosting!
Yeah, we stumbled onto paradise. I never wanted to come here because I am afraid of sharks and crocodiles… but sightings of crocodiles is very rare, and the nets they have for swimming here are very good.
…which when you think about it makes it the same as the A-mill view except for the endless eons between 1st and 2nd comings.
Nice pics Stefcui… good to see you bragging. 
Hmmmm… I always thought the Preterist believes that we are in the millenium right now.
As for me, I am a historic pre-millenialist, the view held by most of the Christians of the first and second century.
Thanks Davo. I come from down your way. Apart from the floods of recent, you live in a nice part of Australia too. You can’t beat QLD!!!
Damn straight… not even NSW 
!!
The FULL or consistent pretêrist view definitely understands the millennial reign as being in the biblical generation to whom Christ came Ad30-70 – his “this generation” etc. It was a time of trial and tribulation where those of faith would come into the fullness of Israel’s redemption. In a real sense it emulated the 40yr wilderness wandering period where those of faith came into the fullness of their redemption, i.e., the Promised Land.
I believe the Preterist sees it as the time between Jesus death and 70AD , around 40 years.
Hmmmm... I always thought the Preterist believes that we are in the millenium right now.
The FULL or consistent pretêrist view definitely understands the millennial reign as being in the biblical generation to whom Christ came Ad30-70 – his “this generation” etc. It was a time of trial and tribulation where those of faith would come into the fullness of Israel’s redemption. In a real sense it emulated the 40yr wilderness wandering period where those of faith came into the fullness of their redemption, i.e., the Promised Land.
“…the power and mercy of God’s grace is NOT limited to man’s ability to comprehend it…”
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davo
Paidion,
The Full Preterist thinks everything in the bible ended in 70AD but there are nuances. Your good friend Doug is a Preterist except for the fact he thinks the millenium is still open until the end of the world.
Hi Steve,
If “Doug” believes the end of the world is an end of the time-space universe then he would be a ‘partial pretêrist’. Full pretêrism view ‘the end of the world/age’ as a reference to the coming end of the Mosaic era, i.e., the world of the old covenant. It was this world that was coming to an end in Christ’s Cross-Parousia event Ad30-70.
Paidion can you please explain what historic pre-millienialist is?
Thank you.
Blessings
Dani
Hi Daniel,
Following Paidion’s view, the following are some quotes on the Millennium from some of the Early Church Fathers (ECF). The ECF are generally those who followed in the centuries immediately following the death of the apostles. Notice the *future fulfillment *of the promises followed by a time of restoration.
Daveb, see if you can follow along with me from page 450 of Bercott.
“The days will come in which vines having ten thousand branches will grow. In each branch, there will be ten thousand twigs, and in each shoot there will be ten thousand clusters. Each cluster will have ten thousand grapes, and every grape will give twenty-five metretes of wine, when pressed… In like manner, a grain of wheat will produce ten thousand ears.”
Papias (120 AD), Fragments of Papias (Irenaeus citing Papias), Chapter 4
“Among these things, Papias says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth.”
Papias (120 AD), Fragments of Papias (Eusebius citing Papias), Chapter 6
*“Therefore, when man will have again made his way back to his natural condition and no longer does evil, the [animals] will also be restored to their original gentleness.” *
**Theophitus (180AD), Theophitus to Autolycus, Book 2, chapter 17 **
“It is fitting for the righteous to be the first to receive the promise of the inheritance that God promised to the fathers. It is fitting for them to reign in it, when they rise again to behold God in this creation that will have been renovated. It is fitting that the judgment should take place afterwards. For it is just that in that very same creation in which they toiled or were afflicted (being tested in every way by suffering) they should receive the reward of their suffering. . . It is fitting, therefore, that the creation itself being restored to its pristine condition, should be under the dominion of the righteous with out restraint.”
Irenaeus (180AD), Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book 5, chapter 32
“The promise of God that He gave to Abraham remains steadfast… . . God promised him the inheritance of the land. Yet, Abraham did not receive it during all the time of his journey there. Accordingly, it must be that Abraham, together with his seed (that is, those who fear God and believe in Him), will receive it at the resurrection of the just.”
Irenaeus (180AD), Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book 5, chapter 32
*“On the other hand, there is to be an end of evil when the chief of evil, the devil, will “go away into the fire that God has prepared for him and his angels,” having first been cast into the bottomless pit. Likewise, at that time, the manifestation of the children of God will have delivered the animals from evil. For they had been “made subject to vanity.” At that time, the cattle will be restored in the innocence and integrity of their nature and will be at peace with beasts of the field. At that time, also, little children will play with serpents.” *
Tertullian (200 AD), Against Hermogenes, Chapter 11
"We do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven. Only, it will be in another state of existence. For it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem “let down from heaven.”
Tertullian (207 AD), Against Marcion, Book 3, Chapter 25
As Paidion mentioned, the earliest christians believed that the millennium was in the future (as opposed to amillennium, historicism and preterism), and that the millennium would do away with wickedness (as opposed to post-millennium). I hold this pre-millennium view also.
Steve
Thanks Stef, for those quotes for Daniel. Before I read your response, I had written the following:
Daniel, a historic pre-millenialist believes that Christ is coming again, and that this coming is simultaneous with the resurrection of His saints and then followed by His reign here on earth, a reign usually considered to be about 1000 years (a millenium). Most of them (including the early Christians such as Irenæus) also believe the coming of Christ will be preceded by a tribulation period in which the saints are persecuted and the Antichrist (“instead of Christ”) will rule the earth for a short period.
Davo, as a full preterist, you believe Christ’s coming occurred in 70 A.D. Right? Do you think Christ will ever return to earth again? Is there anything here on earth for the disciples of Christ in the future? Or is their only hope the flying away of their spirits to heaven at death?
Yes Christ’s parousia was Ad70. Christ’s “coming” was all about the ‘Final Judgment’ on their then OC system/world, NOT on our future time-space universe.
To the degree Jesus dwells in the heart to that degree he continues ever-present in the world and is not in need of an extra “appearing” beyond the service offered in and by his saints to the world.
Prêterism views the NT’s “cloud-coming” language as indicative of Yahweh’s * cloud coming judgments* as recorded in the OT and all that went with that.
Prêterism views the final Judgment of Ad66-70 given to Christ Jn 5:22, 27; Act 10:42; 17:31] as emulating this very thing. IOW, prêterism does NOT view Christ’s parousia as a future to us tangible cloud surfing lap of the globe event, BUT understands it as the divine judgment meted out on a failed system of self-serving law-righteousness encapsulated in Jerusalem and her Temple and all that fed that, i.e., the priesthood etc Lk 11:52].
Christ’s Cross was the DEFINING event and Christ’s Coming the CULMINATING event of God’s once for all on behalf of all redemptive and reconciliatory intervention in history. IOW they form the bookends if you will of the final restorative and gracious act of God, i.e., the new creation aka the new covenant wherein man stands restored under Christ.
There is in terms of service to God as in “love thy neighbour” and the consequential blessings that flow from that.