The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#1

s3.amazonaws.com/tgc-documents/c … of_God.pdf

Here’s a free copy. Anyone looked at this. I’m going to read it but thought you all may save me some time if its not worth the read.

#2

To be more specific, this is a monograph from D.A. Carson.

#3

I have a unread copy on my bookshelf. May read it one day if I ever have the time. Fairly dense & complex, I’ve been told. From memory someone said Carson divides up love into categories (so that it excuses ECT??). Could be interesting.

#4

I just started looking at it. The chaper headings are:

1 On Distorting the Love of God
2 God Is Love
3 God’s Love and God’s Sovereignty
4 God’s Love and God’s Wrath

Sonia

#5

Could you be even more specific? :laughing: I’m not sure what you mean.

Yes, here’s the way he puts it:

  1. The peculiar love of the Father for the son, and of the Son for the Father
  2. God’s providential love over all that he has made
  3. God’s salvific stance toward the fallen world
  4. God’s particular, effective, selecting love toward his elect.
  5. God’s love is sometimes conditional upon the obedience of His people.
#6

Carson: 1. The peculiar love of the Father for the son, and of the Son for the Father
2. God’s providential love over all that he has made
3. God’s salvific stance toward the fallen world
4. God’s particular, effective, selecting love toward his elect.
5. God’s love is sometimes conditional upon the obedience of His people.

Tom: What a mess.

Tom

#7

Agreed. If God’s love for me was dependent on my obedience, I would be completely screwed. (And what is with this “sometimes” stuff. It makes God sound kinda flaky.)

#8

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

I was going to try to skim through it, but I don’t know if I want to spend the time. There’s so much other stuff I’d rather read right now!

I think I’ll wait for someone else to read and summarize for us! :sunglasses:

Sonia

#9

I got to this part and it made me laugh. :laughing: 3 little words that say so much.

I’ve thought to myself how can love be this complicated? What is wrong with applying the definitions of love that God has given us, like the one in 1 Cor. 13. Are there passages that talk of lesser love and condone having it? The implication of varying degrees of love, that I can see, is that we rationalize why we don’t have to love others or why God doesn’t. This seems no muy bueno to me or in Tom’s great words, “a mess.”

#10

I was only adding that Don Carson is the author–a detail accidentally omitted in your initial post. :wink: (Don’t worry about the “monograph” thing. It’s the non-fiction equivalent of a novella.)

#11

To be fair, I expect from other things he’s written that he means the mode or form of God’s love is sometimes and/or in some ways conditional upon the obedience of His people. Which isn’t anything controversial: Calvs, Arms and Kaths can all agree with that.

We’re going to disagree on DC’s application of the concept of “God’s people”, of course. :wink: