Following my discussion with Dondi on the subject of the fairness of Josiah’s death, I thought to share these thoughts found in an old “SONSHINE” blog of mine. They concern our pre-existense (kind of a misnomer) and the subject of our earthly suffering which physical death is a part. I don’t know if “our pre-existense” has been discussed here before but if not I would love to read your thoughts on the subject.


“And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” Eph 2:6

"Is there a copy of you reading this article? A person who is not you but who lives on a planet called Earth, with misty mountains, fertile fields and sprawling cities, in a solar system with eight other planets? The life of this person has been identical to yours in every respect …

The idea of such an alter ego seems strange and implausible, but it looks as if we will just have to live with it, because it is supported by astronomical observations. The simplest and most popular cosmological model today predicts that you have a twin …

Scientists now believe there may really be a parallel universe - in fact, there may be an infinite number of parallel universes, and we just happen to live in one of them. These other universes contain space, time and strange forms of exotic matter. Some of them may even contain you, in a slightly different form. Astonishingly, scientists believe that these parallel universes exist less than one millimetre away from us. In fact, our gravity is just a weak signal leaking out of another universe into ours.

For years parallel universes were a staple of the Twilight Zone. Science fiction writers loved to speculate on the possible other universes which might exist. In one, they said, Elvis Presley might still be alive or in another the British Empire might still be going strong. Serious scientists dismissed all this speculation as absurd. But now it seems the speculation wasn’t absurd enough. Parallel universes really do exist and they are much stranger than even the science fiction writers dared to imagine."
[size=85](Material above excerpted from
an article by Max Tegmark on
BBC Science and Nature) [/size]

Please note, the following material might best be read slowly and even twice to gain the meaning. I have taken the liberty of not overstating that which I see, but instead desiring to allow the Spirit to fill in the blanks. I would hope you might even see deeper than I, with regard to this subject.

In a recent blog, Roy’s friend’s contemplation of a “what if” caught my eye. I was at that time, studying the “Elohim” which speaks to the plurality in God. I believe this “plurality” includes you and me. Here is the pondering which I thought quite profound. Although this writer may not even recognize our pre-existence in God, his question gives opening to the consideration of us each, as part of the Elohim, deciding beforehand our individual fates on earth. This idea if true would go a long way in Theodicy.

"What would you choose if God spoke to you and gave you the option of either living a relatively pain free life, one of little sorrow, or stress, or upset;

The other choice was to experience more of Him, so that you can have a deeper relationship with Him. That in the end you would agree to let Him drag you through pain and sorrow, and stress and upset, but in the end you would have a much closer relationship with Him, and get to know Him in a greater way!" (Roy’s friend)

Before I go on with my thoughts of the Elohim and how they tie into what the scientists are observing in the natural realm, I thought to share part of a forum discussion that I copied not long ago. I believe this message succinctly addresses the friend of Roy’s question in a unique way.

Sometimes I question the choices I must have made in the pre-existence, trying to make sense of it all. Why I always feel so alienated from the rest of the world at times.

" I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it." Ecc 1:13

“For, moreover, a man does not know his season; Like fish that are held in a vicious weir, And like birds that are held in a snare, So the sons of humanity themselves are trapped by a season of evil, When it falls on them suddenly.” Ecc 9:12
(written by Paul)

Why, Indeed?

*“Although He was a Son, He (Jesus) learned obedience from the things which He suffered.” Heb 5:8

" I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." Joh 13:16*

Which all leads back to…

“I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil, Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.” Ecc 1:13

Please allow me to share one more quote. This is a favorite of mine because of both the humor and the expressed thought that I can identify with, especially in the midst of a trial. This is Martin Zender’s reply when someone questioned his teaching on absolute sovereignty:

Some one said, “You mean God’s responsible for all this hardship and trouble and pain? Some God!”

Martin’s reply was “Don’t complain to me about it! If it were up to me I’d fire Him from being God so fast it would make your head spin!”

I believe if we got to the bottom of the matter we might possibly be, also firing ourselves. (Don’t know whether to cry or laugh with that thought, but let’s move on)

“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” Jn 10:34

In the scripture above Jesus prods the Pharisees “do you know you are Gods?” Besides serving to fulfill scripture I see this as kind of a “jokes on you, pals” statement.

Later, as Jesus hung from the cross, He would look upon these same naysayers and persecutors turned murderers and speak to their state of ignorance. Amazingly, while dieing an incredibly horrendous death, Christ would absolve His killers of responsibility. What amazing words these are and how few really understand their implication. I know, I have barely touched even a minimal understanding of such love, such amazing mercy and unfathomable grace demonstrated by One, that could have instead called down legions to save Him and punish His executioners.

Then said Jesus, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”
Luk 23:34

Surely, the veil of ignorance is our flesh made up of the elements of a material world … a world fallen from Heaven and thrown into darkness and chaos. For a certainty, we “know not what we do” until our dark and separated souls begin to be illuminated by and united with the Spirit of Christ. The illumination and unification is God’s work in the saving of our soul, which is the seat of our flesh.

The word “flesh” is a comprehensive term, that includes all that a person is through his or her natural birth. This includes intellect, emotions, will, body, consciousness, expression and identity. The flesh is Adam! The flesh nature is also dead to God. Our walk begins in darkness and death and is a journey of change where we progressively pass through the veil, evolving from the darkness of the flesh to the light and life of the Spirit.

“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh” Heb 10:19,20

Precious Jesus! For that veil through which we must pass is His flesh, His rent body that poured out the redeeming blood that washed away our sin along with the ignorance that sin wrought. For us the rent veil is the body of Christ wounded. His sacrifice is the way to Heaven where the Holiest Place, is opened to us. The veil of flesh, of the Holiest of All, was torn open that we might enter in. Oh my, can we even imagine! Will we ever come to the end of our understanding and awe when contemplating such profound a sacrifice.

If we chose to enlarge on this, we could go on and on, showing how, still the the sacrifice and suffering of Christ, is currently manifest in the lives of His saints. Surely most here at SONSHINE have been wounded and often deeply, as they find themselves in His body sharing His Cross. Oh, I’ll tell ya, there are circles within circles, or better said “wheels within the wheel”, when it comes to God’s Kingdom. These concentric “wheels of God’s Kingdom”, I believe can be likened to the “many worlds” that the probing scientists can but only observe the shadows of. These brilliant cosmologists, astronomers and physicists will forever be struggling to comprehend the many worlds of God. For such supernal knowledge is only given to those that come as simple children to discover that Christ and all that is His, has come to abide within their very hearts.

The Lord held a little child in his arms, when He declared, “of such is the kingdom of Heaven.”

Lest I try to bite off too much with is blog, I will begin my rest here. I have but shared a portion taken from a large file that was skinnied down from six or seven other files on “our pre-existense” and “the Elohim.” Lord willing I will share more in the next blog on the Elohim and the creation of the many worlds the scientist long to peer into. Til then, maybe I can wet your appetite by asking you to contemplate who might be the “us” in the Genesis scripture below.

"And God (Elohim) said, Let us make man in our image … " Gen. 1:26

If you would like to explore some on your own this good brother has some real insight into the identity and nature of the “Elohim”. I found David Field’s teaching on Gen 1 & 2 quite rich. Here is the link to the his Genesis series and please note this site can be slow.

In closing and in keeping with our theme, if you would, allow me to give you a beautiful bonus. I will leave you with a recent testimony of a good brother I used to trade thoughts with on the forums. He goes by the name “Claypot” and I get tickled when I think of he and his wife raising eleven children. I’m sure Eliyah and Joian can appreciate the thought of “such a full quiver”, as they wipe their brows and whisper, “oh my …oh my gosh” LOL

"Something has happened within me lately. I really feel as if we have come from God, the Spiritual. I mean I really feel it. I think to myself that this is not my home (the physical), I’m just passing through. I ‘see’ myself kind of being in that realm and looking at my life here in this physical. What this does for me is it helps me to communicate to my neighbor. To say “Hey, we’re close to going home, so close. Let’s wipe the dust off of ourselves and start pulling up the tent stakes. This was a nice visit, not always, but it’s time to call it a day and vamoose.”

I can’t really explain it but the spiritual seems more real to me.

Aren’t we all beginning to feel as Clay describes. So, may it be said of us, “they live more in the next world than in this.”

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love”
Eph 1:3,4


[size=85]Note: the definition of the term
"flesh"was taken from an old
writing by an an unknown author [/size]


sorry about my misspelling of “pre-existence” in my prior message. When I discovered it, the edit button had already expired. :blush: