The Inescapable Holiness Of God

[Cole]

There is no attribute more important of God’s than His holiness. This is why it’s the only attribute in the Bible that is repeated three times in a row to stress it’s importance. The Bible says God is Holy, Holy, Holy. Holiness when applied to God not only refers to moral purity but everything that sets God apart from His creation. So, while God is love it is a holy love. It’s no mere human love. Moreover, God’s wrath or justice is also holy. However, His anger doesn’t last forever. But it will not turn back until He accomplishes the desire of His heart - the salvation of all. While I believe there is a remnant chosen by grace in this lifetime called the firstfruits there are also the second fruits. They will be purified in the fires God’s holy hatred as God restores all to Himself.

Notes on God’s Holy hatred:

Leviticus 20:23 - “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.”

Leviticus 26:30 - “And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.”

Deuteronomy 32:19 - “And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.”

Psalm 5:5 - “The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.”

Psalm 5:6 - “Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.”

Psalm 10:3 - “For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.”

Psalm 11:5 - “The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.”

Psalm 53:5 - “There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.”

Psalm 73:20 - “As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.”

Psalm 78:59 - “When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:”

Psalm 106:40 - “Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.”

Proverbs 6:16-19 - “These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Proverbs 22:14 - “The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.”

Lamentations 2:6 - “And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.”

Hosea 9:15 - “All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.”

Zechariah 11:8 - “Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.”

Malachi 1:3 - “And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.”

Romans 9:13 - “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

[Paidion]

Is this how you understand “holiness”? — Hating everyone who is not holy?

Is there any evidence in the New Testament that God ever hated anyone?

Did Jesus really require his disciples to hate their parents, wives, and children?

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

It would seem that the word translated as “hate” has a meaning which is closer to “discount”. When one is completely submitted to Christ as a slave, following Him and obeying Him, he may need to discount other relationships if they interfere with his relationship with Christ.

[Cole]

Is this how you understand “holiness”? — Hating everyone who is not holy?

Is there any evidence in the New Testament that God ever hated anyone?

Did Jesus really require his disciples to hate their parents, wives, and children?

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

It would seem that the word translated as “hate” has a meaning which is closer to “discount”. When one is completely submitted to Christ as a slave, following Him and obeying Him, he may need to discount other relationships if they interfere with his relationship with Christ.

In Luke 14:26 the word means to love less. Romans 9 doesn’t carry this definition as we can see in the context of Mal. 1:3-4. God’s Holy Wrath destroys sin and purifies the sinner in hell. They are then brought up into God’s love and grace. God has a Holy hatred towards sin and certain sinners. This is why He destroys them and makes them new.

[I_sit_in_Awe]

When we come to fully understand that God loves every single person unconditionally and has an end goal to restore every last one of them, then “Holy Wrath” makes sense. Otherwise “Holy Wrath” becomes an evil, intolerable phrase to make excuses for a Monster of a God.

[Cole]

When we come to fully understand that God loves every single person unconditionally and has an end goal to restore every last one of them, then “Holy Wrath” makes sense. Otherwise “Holy Wrath” becomes an evil, intolerable phrase to make excuses for a Monster of a God.

Well, my God is no monster. He is Holy. Holy Wrath cannot be evil by it’s very definition. My God is not driven by His love but His holiness. He has holy love and holy justice. In the end both will transform and purify all people.

[pilgrim]

When we come to fully understand that God loves every single person unconditionally and has an end goal to restore every last one of them, then “Holy Wrath” makes sense. Otherwise “Holy Wrath” becomes an evil, intolerable phrase to make excuses for a Monster of a God.

Well, my God is no monster. He is Holy. Holy Wrath cannot be evil by it’s very definition. My God is not driven by His love but His holiness. He has holy love and holy justice. In the end both will transform and purify all people.

Hi Michael.

As far as I am aware, “Holy, Holy, Holy” is only mentioned once in the old testament and once in the new and was used to imply ‘of the utmost kind’, superlative ie God is most Holy.

But you go much further than this. You say:

My God is not driven by His love but His holiness.

My vision of God’s Holiness almost makes me shrink back at the sort of analysis you are involved in ie attempting to decide what God is driven by, as if He were some’thing/one’ whose drives we mere humans could analyse in some way.

So do you have any scriptural evidence to support that your God is not ‘driven’ by Love but only by Holiness?

[Cole]

The Bible says that God is Holy numerous times and that His ways are Holy. Everything about God is Holy. This includes:

Holy love

Holy justice

Holy wisdom

Holy motives

Holy ways

[pilgrim]

The Bible says that God is Holy numerous times and that His ways are Holy. Everything about God is Holy. This includes:

Holy love

Holy justice

Holy wisdom

Holy motives

Holy ways

I agree Michael, but that doesn’t explain your belief that God is only driven by Holiness and not Love. I’m interested to see if there is any foundation to this belief as I’m sure you’ll agree it is quite a crucial concept.
God bless

[Paidion]

In Luke 14:26 the word means to love less. Romans 9 doesn’t carry this definition as we can see in the context of Mal. 1:3-4.

How do you know? I looked at the passage in Malachi, and think it possible that it could mean “discount” even there.

[Cole]

The Bible says that God is Holy numerous times and that His ways are Holy. Everything about God is Holy. This includes:

Holy love

Holy justice

Holy wisdom

Holy motives

Holy ways

I agree Michael, but that doesn’t explain your belief that God is only driven by Holiness and not Love. I’m interested to see if there is any foundation to this belief as I’m sure you’ll agree it is quite a crucial concept.
God bless

Well, God’s glory is the revealed splendor and beauty of His holiness. From beginning to end, the driving impulse of God’s heart is to be praised for his glory.

Why did God create us? Isaiah 43:6-7, “Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth (says the Lord), everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory.”

Why did God choose a people for himself and make Israel his possession? Jeremiah 13:11, “I made the whole house of Israel … cling to me, says the Lord, that they might be for me a people, a name, a praise and a glory.”

Why did God rescue them from bondage in Egypt? Psalm 106:7-8, “Our fathers, when they were in Egypt, did not consider thy wonderful works…but rebelled against the Most High at the Red Sea. Yet he saved them for his name’s sake that he might make known his mighty power.”

Why did God spare them again and again in the wilderness? Ezekiel 20:14, “I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out.”

Why didn’t God cast away his people when they rejected him as king and asked for a king like the nations? 1 Samuel 12:20-22, “Fear not, you have done all this evil yet do not turn aside from following the Lord … For the Lord will not cast away his people for his great name’s sake.”

Why did God use his sovereign power to bring back his people from exile after punishing four generations of sin? Isaiah (48:9,11) put it like this, “For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you … For my own sake, for my own sake I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.”

Ezekiel 36:22-23,32 puts it like this: “Thus says the Lord God, ‘It is not for your sake, 0 house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name … And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name … and the nations will know that I am the Lord. It is not for your sake that I will act,’ says the Lord God. Let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, 0 house of Israel.’”

Why did the Son of God come to earth and to his final decisive hour? John 17:1, “Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee.”

[pilgrim]

Well, God’s glory is the revealed splendor and beauty of His holiness.

This is another interesting statement for which I would like scriptural support.

From beginning to end, the driving impulse of God’s heart is to be praised for his glory.

I thought you were previously saying that the driving impulse was His Holiness. Now you’re saying that the driving impulse is to be praised for His Glory.

Many of the scriptures you have cited say that God acts in order to maintain the High reputation of His name (ie for His reputation’s sake) but I didn’t read any that supported either of your statements.

Why did the Son of God come to earth and to his final decisive hour? John 17:1, “Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee.”

It is true that Jesus prayed that He would be glorified, but the text doesn’t say that that was the reason He had come to earth.

For a reason, I think a better text is John 3:16 “God so Loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son…”
-this clearly says that the driving force for God’s action of sending His Son into the world was Love.

[fmichaeldw]

Hi Michael,

Please forgive me from saying that I think you may be getting into an “unholy” muddle and unnecessarily.

Are you not confusing the word Holy, and the way you qualify that, with Godly? After all what is Holy Love but Godly Love, so why not say Godly Love, Godly wisdom?

Can you not go further and agree to say God is Love (1 John 4: 8 and 16), God is merciful, the wisdom of God, God is Holy.

As for hatred, I fail to understand that God can possibly be held to act in an unloving manner, when love is “a part of His very essence” (Talbot . The Inescapable Love of God). I may be simplifying things and am open to correction as I am no scholar nor theologian. This Forum you will already have seen for yourself is blessed with many and we are fortunate to be able to
share and benefit from their knowledge and wisdom.

One other comment. Your title for this thread? I would suggest that to use this title is getting somewhat too close to the title of that wonderful and fairly recent book The Inescapable Love of God by Talbot, which you may have noted is warmly recommended in a number of threads on this Forum!

God bless!

Michael in Barcelona

[Cole]

Pilgrim,

The glory of God is the going public of his infinite worth. The holiness of God as the infinite value of God, the infinite intrinsic worth of God. And when that goes public in creation, the heavens are telling the glory of God, and human beings are manifesting his glory, because we’re created in his image, and we’re trusting his promises so that we make him look gloriously trustworthy.

The public display of the infinite beauty and worth of God is what I mean by “glory,” and I base that partly on Isaiah 6, where the seraphim say, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole earth is full of his—” and you would expect them to say “holiness” and they say “glory.” They’re ascribing “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole earth is full of his—” and when that goes public in the earth and fills it, you call it “glory.”

So God’s glory is the radiance of his holiness, the radiance of his manifold, infinitely worthy and valuable perfections.

For the sake of His name, your sins are forgiven. God glorifies Himself for the joy of people. That’s love. It holy love. And the radiance of His holiness is His glory.

[pilgrim]

Pilgrim,

The glory of God is the going public of his infinite worth. The holiness of God as the infinite value of God, the infinite intrinsic worth of God. And when that goes public in creation, the heavens are telling the glory of God, and human beings are manifesting his glory, because we’re created in his image, and we’re trusting his promises so that we make him look gloriously trustworthy.

The public display of the infinite beauty and worth of God is what I mean by “glory,” and I base that partly on Isaiah 6, where the seraphim say, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole earth is full of his—” and you would expect them to say “holiness” and they say “glory.” They’re ascribing “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole earth is full of his—” and when that goes public in the earth and fills it, you call it “glory.”

So God’s glory is the radiance of his holiness, the radiance of his manifold, infinitely worthy and valuable perfections.

For the sake of His name, your sins are forgiven. God glorifies Himself for the joy of people. That’s love. It holy love. And the radiance of His holiness is His glory.

Cheers Mike. Interesting and elevating thoughts. Thank you.