The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The misnomer of Gods obligation

Im going to paste a bit that erupted from my mind onto the keyboard in response to an argument set forth against Universalism in an online article.
My grammar and continuity are sloppy and unrefined, but I hope my logic and reasoning might be of benefit to someone and perhaps break open some interesting discussion. Here goes:

One of the often stated objections to universalism amongst its critics is the idea that God does not owe anyone salvation. It presupposes that universalists are basing their position on an idea that God must submit to some form of justice that is higher than Himself. However we would readily acknowledge that God owes no one anything. Yet God has chosen to give to us in a way that is objectively evidenced as kindness and generosity and love according to human sensibility. But if we begin to knock down propositions on the nature and intent of God’s love based on the single notion that God owes us nothing then we create a loophole whereby anything that God has promised can be reneged on the basis that He does not owe it to us. This notion that God owes us nothing and therefore universalism is untenable immediately takes us back into the realm of Calvinism. If God owes us nothing and we can expect nothing as a result, then how can we know whether or not God will keep his word and the conditions of salvation at all? Well of course the answer seems that God keeps his word and that by keeping his word he proves that He is faithful according to objective human understanding of faithfulness.
If objective human understanding of terms and ideas by which God identifies Himself are of no value in these things then we would have to ask what is the point of trying to communicate with man at all? But if God‘s intent is to develop within us a faith that trusts Him, our own objective understanding requires some standard of reference. God begins with our words in our language and our definitions of terms and applies them to Himself. Yet due to the transcendent nature of God and how much infinitely further his qualities exceed ours, God chooses to illustrate his version of these human terms by demonstrating through his actions. As Romans 5:18 states, “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

The dynamic within the relationship between God and man which God initiated always has within itself the the quality of being undeserved. In fact the undeservedness of all of God’s graces are inescapable at every step of the way in our relationship with Him and our understanding of what He has said we can expect of Him.
The very fact that over and again God established covenants testifies that He has brought us into a relationship with someone who wants to be understood and relied upon not only as faithful but benevolent. It should be noted that a covenant was a custom created by man long ago in order to establish a system of trust and goodwill between parties so as to know what could be expected and the responsibilities that each party agrees upon. This custom was particularly valuable in a time wherein warfare and violent domination of others was a means of expanding wealth and power. To enter into a covenant with the neighboring tribes was a far wiser option than fighting and losing half your tribe in order to gain a few more cattle. God’s covenant with Abraham wherein he divided up the sacrifice and walked between the pieces as the torch and the pot was not some mysterious image from heaven being revealed to men. It was in fact a human custom that God appropriated for the purpose of illustrating his intent towards Abraham and his descendants. Abraham and his contemporaries would have recognized what God did as a ceremony often repeated among tribal chiefs and clan leaders throughout the generations. Of course the most outstanding aspect of this is that Abraham had nothing that God needed except for a willing and acceptable vessel with which to accomplish a very particular goal. That goal was the ultimate salvation of mankind. But as covenants go God did not need anyone else for his sustenance or survival. Yet rather than simply acting in an authoritarian fashion towards Abraham, God took the position of a strong ally.
On many levels this reveals to us God’s desire to approach us in a way that fits the context of our own understanding of intentions, promises, reliability and goodwill. God did not say “Here’s how we make promises in heaven you’ll just have to trust me”. Instead he said “Here is how I know you make promises to one another on earth. I will appropriate that custom and fulfill my stated commitments through my divine power and abilities.” Note the concept of the Bride of Christ was not some new idea but God appropriating an ancient human custom whereby men and women covenanted in life long love.
So It would seem that By stating that God does not owe us anything, we are sweeping aside the vast amount of scriptural precedent whereby God teaches us to expect something from Him despite our unworthiness. To appeal to the accepted reality that God owes us nothing is to sweep aside the vast amount of demonstrations God exhibited in the Scriptures to define Himself to our understanding as having certain unchanging qualities.

Now I would have to admit there are a few places in the Bible where God seems to say “I can do whatever I want whenever I want it doesn’t have to make sense to you or anybody else.” But for every time God says something like that I think I could find 20 times that He asserts that our faith in Him and expectancy towards Him should not only be predicated on what He has said but in fact who He is and who He has proclaimed Himself to be based on objective standards of love, justice, etc. For I do not think that anyone would dare say that when we do not understand what God is doing at a given time, or why, that should lead us to believe His character and nature are anything besides what He has expressly taught us to believe about Him. The traits that God has taught us to understand and worship Him for are things like His power, His holiness, His wisdom and His love.
All of these traits are in perfect harmony and He seems to indicate that as great as his power and his wisdom and his holiness are, that his love reigns supreme over all. All these traits are chords within the key, but the key of Gods song is Love Major. For as the Scripture says “the greatest of these is love”. For as John has said “God is love”. He did not say God is holiness even though God is holy. He did not say God is power even though God is all powerful. He did not say God is wisdom even though God is all wise. He said God is love. In setting this trait as the supreme quality He creates a framework whereby we can solve many of the mysteries and apparent conflicts of the Bible.
Where the proponents of a endless conscious torment appeal to God’s holiness as the necessity for an unending punishment, we universalists appeal to that aspect of God’s nature which He has clearly set forth in scripture as being preeminent above all others and that is His love. And so it is not upon a sense of inherant worthiness that we build an expectation of God’s universal reconciliation of all, but instead a respect for who God has stated and demonstrated Himself to be.

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That argument makes a lot of sense. God made us. Nobody asked to be born into this world. Nobody was able to live a perfect life since, starting with Cain, all have inherited a sinful nature. There is not a single action we can take that can make us perfect. We can never be perfect, no matter how hard we try, even though God demands perfection. Only God can accomplish that and He has done so by predestinating us to be conformed to the image of His Son. (Rom. 8:29). {Calvinists of course, claim that He only does that on behalf of the elect).

If God is Love and He is, He loves each individual creation He made. I would agree with the arguments here presented that He is obligated to save all.

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Next time ask these “no obligation” people “can God lie?” because if not He does have obligations to certain promises He made. Such as the one given to Abraham about “all the families of the nations being blessed”… Hmmm sounds like an obligatory blessing promised by God to redeem the whole world to me…

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But what do you mean by “perfect”? Do you mean “flawless” or do you mean “complete”?

In the context of my post, I obviously took “perfection” to mean “flawlessness”, an impossible standard for believers to live by. Our standing before God is now “completeness” (Col. 2:10) but only because we are in Christ.

Good! The normal meaning of “perfect” is “complete,” and of course, salvation from sin is a life-long process, and thus we are not yet complete… but we shall be! For Paul wrote:

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Phillipians 1:6)

Yet, I suppose that when this day occurs, we will also be flawless.

That Phillipians verse is very interesting! May that Day of Jesus Christ come soon!

Some would say this isnt true. We are incomplete until we do “our part”. Many don’t believe justification to be a “complete deal” but an incomplete one and conditional upon us.

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.…

Ph. 2.12

Actually Paul was talking to ‘saved’ but not ‘perfected’ - like all of us who are believers but are yet beset by sins.

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

As one who traditionally sees things a bit different than you Dave, I would appreciate some specific exegesis on how Paul was talking to ‘saved’ but not ‘perfected.’

Okay, Dave, I THINK I know where you’re coming from, because I think I used to see it that way, too.
But first let me ask you—if we are already saved, then from what have we saved?

From our sins. :wink:

Let me ask you first - how would you explain the puzzle? I’ll bet you have a pretty good idea already.

Well… as I see it, if we have been saved from our sins, then we no longer sin.
But clearly we still occasionally sin (do those things that harm other people or ourselves).
Therefore we have not yet been saved from our sins.

However, because we have submitted to the authority of Christ in our lives, God’s enabling grace is TRAINING US " to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives(Titus 2:11)

Thus salvation (as the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches) is a life-long process. Thankfully that process will some day be completed. As the apostle Paul wrote

I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.(Philippians 1:6)

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Totally agree with you, Paidion! Well put.