The Salvation Mysteries

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

So, LLC. What is it that allows man to be good? Is it will? Can I say, “gee, I been a Hell’s Angel or Outlaw biker gang member, all my life. Today I think I’ll change my ways and be a good guy?”

Or is it something like God decides to send, his grace on that biker member. And they change their ways?

So, don’t just quote some scriptural verses. Give me your view and perspective!

Or perhaps the Calvinists are right? And unless God has decided to interview, when he created life…I might just always, be singing this song?

This is all, I have to say - regarding my behavior!

[LLC]

So, don’t just quote some scriptural verses. Give me your view and perspective!

HF, I believe God made masters of our own destinies.

This is all, I have to say - regarding my behavior!

Try “The Man in the Mirror” by Michael Jackson

[LLC]

HF, Mark 7:21 “For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts.”

If evil originates from the hearts of men, as many of the scriptures suggests, then it is not everlasting since man is mortal. Man either changes and lives, or we destroy ourselves.

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Try “The Man in the Mirror” by Michael Jackson

I found the “man in the mirror”, LLC!

[Paidion]

Until my grandmother’s death after a long battle with dementia, I never thought about hell. I was raised Catholic, and the RCC affirms ET, but it was never preached in the church I attended. But when my grandmother died, I started asking, “What happens to all those non-Christians when they die?!”

Well… my understanding is that they (as well as Christians) die, and thus are dead. And they’ll stay dead until the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. I don’t believe that a person has (or is) an immaterial “soul” or “spirit” that goes somewhere after death.

[davo]

I wonder if the bible has anything to say about any part of Jesus going anywhere after death before resurrection?

[davo]

So what changed? THE PAROUSIA… changed everything — what was inaugurated in Christ’s Ministry , and ratified through Christ’s Cross , was subsequently consummated at Christ’s Coming of AD70.

I don’t understand your statement. The truth is, there is no other-worldly evil being and humans are responsible for their own actions. This was known and preached BEFORE the parousia. It doesn’t seem to have changed. Many still preach and believe in the devil and there are still those who don’t.

What I am saying is that regardless of whatever status one might give the devil or Satan such as is given in terms of the biblical story or biblical history all such ended in the parousia — that’s what I’m saying changed.

[LLC]

What I am saying is that regardless of whatever status one might give the devil or Satan such as is given in terms of the biblical story or biblical history all such ended in the parousia — that’s what I’m saying changed.

Obviously not because as you say in the following quotes:

By your own words… “ Peter was being tempted by selfish ambition and greed. ” — in this instance there’s your satan.

Selfish ambition and greed still exist.

to whom was Jesus referring, your traditional reading, or possibly for example… from an historical-narrative reading “ the devil and his angels ” ( Mt 25 ) can be understood as the referring to the Jewish High Priest and the Sanhedrin — all of whom were accusers diabolically opposed to Jesus.

The Roman Catholic Church which came into power AFTER the parousia can be likened to the Jewish High Priest and the Sanhedrin. If you’re burning and torturing people over differing religious beliefs, then you certainly don’t have the mind of Christ.

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Until my grandmother’s death after a long battle with dementia, I never thought about hell. I was raised Catholic, and the RCC affirms ET, but it was never preached in the church I attended. But when my grandmother died, I started asking, “What happens to all those non-Christians when they die?!”

Well… my understanding is that they (as well as Christians) die, and thus are dead. And they’ll stay dead until the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. I don’t believe that a person has (or is) an immaterial “soul” or “spirit” that goes somewhere after death.

Paidion to qaz

Well, I used to think along similar lines. Until I started hanging around different religious groups…and I discovered the viewpoints of Christian Inclusivism (1, 2, 3, 4).

And when I hung around the Two Feathers Medicine Clan…I learned about the centuries, of Native American teachings on spirits…and even the Roman Catholic clergy, has investigated this:

The Pipe and Christ: A Christian-Sioux Dialogue

Perhaps when the zombies of Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) get here…someone might invent a communication device, we can attach to them. Then we can ask them…If such a device were invented, can I have a volunteer here - to attach it to one of them?

[davo]

What I am saying is that regardless of whatever status one might give the devil or Satan such as is given in terms of the biblical story or biblical history all such ended in the parousia — that’s what I’m saying changed.

Obviously not because as you say in the following quotes:

By your own words… “Peter was being tempted by selfish ambition and greed.” — in this instance there’s your satan.

I was of course drawing Mark to his own words. I mention above the biblical story or biblical history — my understanding is that Satan doesn’t need to be automatically assumed to be an ethereal being; I’m more inclined to see such an accuser as human.

to whom was Jesus referring, your traditional reading, or possibly for example… from an historical-narrative reading “the devil and his angels” (Mt 25) can be understood as the referring to the Jewish High Priest and the Sanhedrin — all of whom were accusers diabolically opposed to Jesus.

The Roman Catholic Church which came into power AFTER the parousia can be likened to the Jewish High Priest and the Sanhedrin.

Well that might be said of any number of religious bodies… but my comment referred to the then soon coming end, i.e., what Mt 24-25 was all about.

[LLC]

my understanding is that Satan doesn’t need to be automatically assumed to be an ethereal being ; I’m more inclined to see such an accuser as human.

I agree.

The Roman Catholic Church which came into power AFTER the parousia can be likened to the Jewish High Priest and the Sanhedrin.

Well that might be said of any number of religious bodies

Exactly. The Jewish High Priest and the Sanhedrin had NO power over Israel when they were first born because the majority of the people were in the body of Christ. They were believing in and following the principles of Christ, as Paul explains in 1 Cor. 10:2-4 "All were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Remember, Moses did not give the Levites an inheritance. Instead, religious bodies such as those of the Levitical priesthood were scattered throughout Israel. 1Cor.10:5 "But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.