The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Search for a Church

Evangelical Universalism
#1

Hi, all,

I’m looking for a church that would be tolerant of universalist believes. There is a beautiful Episcopalian church nearby–I’ve always loved it because it looks like a castle, but I’ve never gone inside. Anyway, I know that Episcopalians are a bit more theologically liberal, and I was wondering if they would generally be tolerant of EU views? I just don’t feel entirely comfortable in either my father’s Catholic parish, although I love the tradition and solemnity, or in my mom’s evangelical church, where I equally love the outgoing joy and praise. Just curious.:slight_smile:

My first church will always be among the trees, birds, flowers, and squirrels, but sometimes it’s nice to have a pew of your own, as well.

Thanks!

Katherine

P.S. Any other suggestions besides Episcopalian are very welcome! Where do you all attend church?

Where to go to church?
#2

Hi Katherine,

I’m part of a non-denominational conservative bible teaching church that does not agree with my belief in UR, but they put up with me, and I appreciate that. :sunglasses:

The Episcopalian church is worth a try. I’d go and talk to a pastor (or is it priest?) about what you believe and see what kind of reaction you get. It might be interesting to talk to people at the Catholic church and the Evangelical church as well to get a comparison.

Sonia

#3

Worth checking out Grace Communion International as they certainly welcome EUs (although not explicitly an EU denomination yet… :slight_smile: )

#4

Whereabouts do you live, Miss Tea? I found the universalist group that I’m part of now by looking for like-minded people who live in my area on Facebook.
Because I have so many universalist friends on my friends list on Facebook, I just looked up people who lived in my area and saw if any of them had any mutual universalist friends on their friends list, which was a good indication that they were probably universalists too, and which is how I found my pastor, Steve Doss, and found out about his group. :slight_smile:
I might be able to do the same for you. Just let me know whereabouts you live and I can see if I can find anyone. :slight_smile:

And by the way, my group happens to meet in an Episcopalian church, the same one I was baptized in when I was a baby :wink:

Other than Episcopalian, here’s a few other larger denominations that I know of that are more likely to be open to universalism: United Methodist, Disciples Of Christ, United Church Of Christ, and Eastern Orthodox.
Those are the only larger denominations that I know of that are more likely to be open to universalism other than Episcopalian, but there are some churches within just about every denomination that are open to it, it just varies from church to church.

Liberal churches are far more likely to be open to it, I’m thinking. If, for instance, the church allows female pastors, is supportive of gays, is friendly with other religions, and is generally ecumenical and inclusive in their approach to things, is more focused on living out their faith in practical ways then on writing out exhaustive doctrinal statements, and that sort of thing, then more likely than not they won’t get bent out of shape about your beliefs, and will probably be cool with it, or even be in agreement with you about it. :slight_smile:

For instance, when I went to a United Methodist church in my area a few times, it was refreshing how open-minded people were there.
I still didn’t feel like I fit in there for other reasons, and eventually ended up in Steve’s group instead, but it was cool how accepting everyone there was of where I was at. :slight_smile:

But anyways, if you feel that you’re more conservative by nature, and want to be part of a more conservative church, then the likelihood of finding one that is open to universalism is much smaller, unfortunately. :neutral_face:

Well, I hope this helps.

Blessings to you, and I believe God will lead you to where you need to go :slight_smile:

Matt

#5

^^^^^^^^^ Matt’s giving the insider info here - that’s great :smiley:

Episcopalians? Well I’m a Church of England ‘Anglican’ - the Episcopalian Church is an independent Province of the worldwide Anglican Church; so I guess we are related :laughing:

From what I know about Episcopalians Churches and Church history - well yes there has always been a universalist strand in Episcopalianism (which was not necessarily tied to theological or ethical liberalism). However…

What a boring intro that was - so I’ll cut to the chase - :laughing:

Episcopalianism also contains some very conservative churches that might teach ECT. Its statistically not very probable that your local church will be of the traditionalist high church wing - but just in case (forewarned is forearmed!!! - do some research about the local church first; if it’s open during the week, go and see what sort of literature is no display there.)

Bis bald! :wink:

#6

Roman Catholicism is more friendly to UR than it used to be – a lot more friendly to it sometimes! They’re steadily moving (in practice if not in catechetical dogma yet) toward a non-dogmatic stance on the topic, where it’s allowed as a theological opinion that can be held and defended so long as it is not taught as church doctrine (in other words with the leeway the Eastern Orthodox church has had about it historically).

There might be other problems joining the RCC as a professing member, and there are still a few problems along that route – they tend to say one thing but allow another in this regard for example – but if you tell them you’re drawn to be part of the Divine Mercy movement they shouldn’t give you any problems about UR.

#7

Thanks, everyone!

Alex: I’m definitely going to give Grace Communion International a try. Sounds pretty close to myself but I’m a bit more universal, of course! They’re getting there!

Matt: I live in good ol’ Ohio, where there are heavy German-Catholic roots, so finding Universalist congregations is difficult. Most Catholic parishioners seem to be unknowingly universalist in practice, but “official” Church teaching, especially that on mortal and venial sin, doesn’t sit right with me.

I believe I looked into Disciples of Christ, as well before.:slight_smile: Wasn’t there a new member who was a Disciples of Christ pastor? After reading her intro, I googled her church. A possibility, as well.

Uncle Prof: See? I knew we were related? :wink: Personally, I prefer Anglicanism, because it seems less politically involved than Episcopalian, and I don’t like politics. Maybe I just feel that way because their political stuff is all based in England. Despite the politics, I like Episcopalians because it reminds me of my Catholic childhood a bit.

Bis bald to you, too! :laughing:

Jason: I would have no problems being a professing member of the RCC… because I already am one! :laughing: Born and raised, baptized and confirmed Catholic. I definitely agree that they are changing in practice, but they are at a theological standstill. It is still a mortal sin to miss Sunday mass in favor of watching a football game, damning a lifelong Catholic to eternal hell. Most don’t believe this, of course, but it’s still in the books. I don’t want to be a salad bar Catholic, but somehow I just don’t think God is that into schedules. :wink:

#8

Hi Kate –

Well I think them Episcopalians are a bit different from us Church of England Anglicans actually when it comes to politics. In the Church of England – because it’s the national Church (in a relatively small country) - in any given congregation you get people of all different political views and we just have to get on with each other; and we really do most of the time, and politics doesn’t seem to frightening because of that (tedious yes :unamused: , but frightening no). Its’ a fact of life that - until Christ comes we have power to share around as best as we can, none of us have all the answers because we are all limited in our wisdom and our ability to see the whole picture etc. So the best we can do is make sure that in any discussion of politics – whether it’s about how best to care for the homeless, whether we really need to build another airport in London, or anything else etc - everyone gets listened too and people are aware that there is a middle ground of compromise that’s worth listening too, even if they don’t take up that ground because of their honourable principles. And of course we have tea and biscuits afterwards to cool off :slight_smile:

I understand that Episcopalians have a reputation for often being quite rich but championing ‘progressive’ political causes in a provocative, posey way. That’s a massive over-generalisation (with a grain of truth in it concerning just some Episcopalians). But yes that is different from the Church of England and probably there are lots of historical reasons why it’s become this way.

Well I’ve only really ever touched base with one Episcopalian properly to be fair – I met him on this site actually. And he’s now training for the ministry. So if you are reading this Episcopalian friend, I think you are a very fine young man, very fine indeed! :laughing: ’ (Also he has a lovely young wife who is a graphic artist).

Bis bald –

Uncle Prof :slight_smile:

P.S. Since I often work in community education - I have to reluctantly get involved in local politics (och community projects get closed down and opened up wihtout rhyme or reason after every shift of power in local elections). Now that’s what I call dirty politics!!! :laughing: Local politicians :unamused: doesn’t’ matter which party they belong to - it’s true what they say about big fish in small ponds :laughing: An awful lot of strutting little popinjays get their chance of brief and tedious glory upon life’s echoing stage in local politics :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

#9

Americans have similar stereotypes of Episcopalians, I think Uncle Prof. Can’t say if they’re true or not. Never really knew any Episcopalians properly–just thought their church nearby was beautiful (possibly reinforcing the stereotype that they’re rich. :laughing:) From my knowledge, they make up one of the wealthier and “stodgier” bunches of Christians, lumped together with other “chosen frozen” congregations like Presbyterians and Lutherans. Just an over-generalization, of course, but kind of funny. One thing is for sure, I guess: if I’m Episcopal, they’ll definitely have *one *member who isn’t rich in the least! :laughing:

With America being so big, it seems any political dissent results in a new church down the street. I have both “liberal” views and “conservative” views, so I kind of wish we took the British viewpoint and just put up with one another, sharing tea and biscuits instead.

Bis dann du Henne. (Since you like “Bis Bald,” I’ll let you figure out this weird–but legit–German saying.)

Kate

#10

I’ll have to look that one up :laughing:

#11

Just figured it out :smiley: :laughing:

#12

:smiley:

#13

Hey Miss Tea (your real name was Kathy right? that’s my mom’s name by the way :wink:), I looked up on Facebook, and there’s actually quite a few universalists (either who are universalists or are at least friendly with them, if they have at least five-ten or more mutual universalist friends they probably are :slight_smile:) who live in Ohio that I ran across.

Here’s links to their profiles:

facebook.com/ilprofessore

facebook.com/tracy.blackvalek

facebook.com/tim.richmond2

facebook.com/christian.luca

facebook.com/steven.olive.5

facebook.com/vincent.m.krivda

facebook.com/dlfields2

facebook.com/lois.w.fields

facebook.com/Rocky520

facebook.com/ron.rogers.77

facebook.com/I.M.David.Freeman

facebook.com/scott.blankenship.712

facebook.com/ikclark

facebook.com/Rickymaye

facebook.com/michael.bartolone.7?

facebook.com/roger.young.5015

facebook.com/mdonahoe7

facebook.com/darin.runyon

facebook.com/lorimartin.barker

facebook.com/vern.goss

I could probably find more if I tried harder, but this should give you a good start :slight_smile:
Who knows, you might make a few friends, or find somebody who can help you find the kind of place that you’re looking for :slight_smile:

And yeah, I’ve never been to a Disciples Of Christ church, but I hear they’re generally very open-minded. :slight_smile:

Blessings to you and I hope this helps :slight_smile:

Matt

#14

Aww, this was so thoughtful, Matt! Thank you! I typically only use Facebook to get updates on my close family and friends–it would be nice to get to know some other Universalists though.

Actually, today I attended a Russian Orthodox Church, and I find it quite nice there. It was my second time attending. The best part was when I told the priest, who used to be Protestant himself, how both the Protestant and Catholic depiction of hell don’t sit well with me. I explained how Protestant/Catholic hell doesn’t seem entirely biblical, and he chuckled and said, “Well, it’s not in there!”

Haha, and Kathy is close, Matt. I’m Katherine. Actually, “Kathy” is one of the only variations of Katherine that I don’t often get called. So I guess I kinda-sorta-maybe share a name with your mother. :slight_smile:

Blessings, you all–thanks, everyone, for the suggestions!

Katherine

#15

You’re welcome :slight_smile: Maybe you can connect with some of those people on there, maybe get together for coffee or something if they live in your neck of the woods :slight_smile:

Good to hear :slight_smile:

Katherine would be my mom’s full name, but she goes by Kathy :slight_smile: I’ll just call you Kate if that’s okay, or we could stick with Miss Tea :wink:

Blessings to you :slight_smile:

Matt

#16

The Prof dubbed me Kate, as well, Matt so Kate it is! :slight_smile:

#17

Just like the soon to be royal mama in England :wink:

#18

Hi Katherine,
You might also try a United Methodist church in your area. Their focus is more on practically loving God and people, while allowing for a variety of beliefs in the fellowship. Of course, as with any denomination, much depends on the local leadership’s personal attitudes.
Blessings,
Sherman

#19

Wish royal Kate and I shared a castle and not just a name! :laughing: Thanks, again, Matt, for your thoughtful suggestions!

And I’ll have to look into the Methodists, Sherman. They always seemed so mainstream, I never gave them much though, assuming they’d surely endorse ECT.

After all the church-hopping, however, I’m starting to miss my religion of the flowers. I’ll probably always feel closest to God just out in nature, never from a pew. And you all are probably the kindest church I’ve ever had!

:slight_smile:

Kate

#20

The most important thing about church, Kate, is the community. If there’s no community (which, alas, is often the case), then I don’t see any point to going either. On the other hand, we do NEED community and it’s well worth seeking with patience, to find it. You can certainly be as close to God with the flowers as in a church building, but I don’t think we can be all Father wants us to be without the company of brothers and sisters to love and be loved by.