The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Three perspectives on why man is God’s master


Three perspectives on why man is God’s master.

Perspective 1.
Has man forgotten his rightful place as God’s master?

A theology makes you a slave to your God while the Jesus that Gnostic Christians follow has man take his rightful place as God’s master. After all, all the Gods are man-made. That is why Gnostic Christianity has always put man ahead of God. The Karaite Jews have that view as well as their oral tradition can overrule the written Torah and God himself, showing how old this tradition or ideology is.

It seems that without the lie of a supernatural God, people are not willing to have a man be God the way the ancients used to do. Emperors used to name themselves God and their sons, sons of God.

One of the Jesus’ that the church did not silence, tells us that that is the right way to think when he said, instead of stoning people on the Sabbath, that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. I extrapolate from that, that Jesus would also say that religions and gods were made for man and not man for religions. Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, I said, Yee are gods? … r_embedded … =PLCBF574D

Perspective 2.
Does the Bible show that our next God is a Man?

The Bible states that when Jesus returns, his elect will make themselves known and elect him to rule over them. The Bible states that our new Jesus will not be recognizable and he will be elected by his Words. Remember that the story tellers, in one of the sequels, have named Jesus. — The Word.

The Abrahamic Karaite oral tradition is that Rabbis, men generally, can overrule the written Word of God. In real language, this means that the interpretation of words and terms is to always be governed by men of the Divine Council and their elected God.

The voice of a man, to the Bible, — is supreme and above God’s written words. That is as it should be as nature makes the ideal of all species to be one of their own. If a God cannot be or is not in our true image, then God is not worthy of us. This is the logic and reason why the rule of man over written tradition must be supreme. Anything else would be humankind giving up our natures for the nature of an alien form. God forbid.

More directly to the question. The Bible states that we are to kill witches. This, at that time, meant that men were not to let themselves be fooled by magicians or alchemists and other tricksters who might deceive them. This meant that nothing magical or supernatural, no magician doing illusions, etc., should be put above the spoken word.

The policy of the Divine Council was to rule by the tenet called the Golden Rule. The Rabbi class thus had the final say in all religious and political matters. The Divine Council would choose whom to anoint and follow as their Prophet/God/King.

Does this ultimately show that God was a man to the Jews who wrote the Bible? Is that why they were so unafraid to change Gods name so often?

Where Jews the first atheists? Closely followed by the Gnostic that had used Jewry as a springboard to their better Universalist creed? Is that why Rome hated Jews and Gnostic Christian?

If the Jews interpreted the word God as a man, the way the old Roman emperors did, then was placing a supernatural God up in heaven a poor theological position for us today.

Perspective 3.
Does as above so below mean that God must abide by man’s laws?

Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesars. Caesar makes the laws we live by and no religion is true to the laws set out by their Gods. Thank God as those laws are quite barbaric. For example, both Yahweh and Allah, through the mouths of men, promote stoning for adultery and sundry other sins. This of course ignores that both Gods show justice as being close to an eye for an eye which is what secular laws try to gauge punishment by.

There is a military term that says that the pace to be set by the troops is as fast as the slowest man. This is so that no man is left behind.

Since we have collectively decided that secular law is superior to the laws of heaven and God, does that mean that when Jesus return, he will validate secular law and ask us to follow Caesar?



Christianity teaches that salvation is a done deal; it’s already settled, just sit back and enjoy. Gnosticism teaches that one has to work and strive to achieve some kind of enlightenment. What are you trying to sell these people, pal?


I just had a very interesting throught. Suppose Gnostic Bishop is the last one to post, before they finally shut this forum down. :open_mouth:


Just that they are God’s master and not vice versa.

On how that salvation is achieved. Christians have to buy into the notion that substitutionary atonement is somehow good justice.

It is not but they cannot pass up their get out of hell free card and so buy into that immoral and unjust policy.

IOW, they sell their souls to Satan in the hope of getting into their imaginary heaven.

That immoral double standard is what I often debate against. This Bishop says that that policy is what will kill Christianity and he may be right as that policy is demonstrably immoral. … gest-vrecs



If God is okay with it then it is good justice. He let the waves of wrath crash over Him, doing in time and space what He is always doing, that is forgiving. He bears the cost of forgiveness. That is the God with whom we deal with.


I also think God gave everyone, a sense of humor. To awaken it a bit, I share today’s humor,from the Sunil Bali blog at


Hilarious, because I had the same exact thought when he posted this a few days ago… What a way for a cached site to be remembered!!! Haha!


Yahweh is also good with genocide and the torture and murder of innocent babies and children.

Only those with satanic morals will follow such a God.

I see that you do not follow scriptures.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You are holding fast to evil.



Like most atheists, DL (and sadly, like many theists), you have no idea of how classic theology conceives of God. God doesn’t dwell in eternity. God IS eternity. God isn’t the one we hope to live with in “heaven.” God IS heaven, and God cannot be any more present in one place than He is in any other place–because God is fully present everywhere, seeing as He IS the everywhere. God is the one in whom we and everyone and everything live and move and have our being. If you understand this fully, then the thing you understand is not God. When Moses asked the name of God, God said, I AM. He meant it. You seem to think that the God in whom we believe is like Thor or Pluto or Athena. Those “gods,” if they existed, are creatures of the cosmos. The real and true God is the fundamental fact beside whom there is no other, in whom all and everything exist. He is not a bigger and more impressive and powerful human being. He is God. There is nothing outside of Him–no, not even some place in which nothing is, not even a true vacuum. There is nothing outside of God because God IS everywhere. Don’t mistake me–God isn’t located everywhere–God IS everywhere–God IS every-when. Is God our servant? Clearly God is our servant–not because we are powerful, but because we are utterly bereft of power. Not because of our great wealth, but rather because of our utter poverty. We are God’s responsibility because we are absolutely unable to care for ourselves. He at every moment and constantly provides life to us. If He did not, we would immediately cease to live. He constantly donates existence to us. If He were to stop, we would never have been. He didn’t build and wind up the universe and then walk away (as though He could ever not be present everywhere). It is by His life that this and any other worlds and all of the inhabitants of any worlds exist and continue to exist and to have existed. If you build a house and then leave town, the house still stands. If you light a candle to fill the room with light, and then take the candle away, the light goes with it. God is like the candle–not like the builder. God IS life, light, existence, everything.


Amen :slight_smile:


I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian. My God is also I am, and yes. I mean me.

Strange how you can know so much about a God who is said to be unknowable, unfathomable and beyond human understanding.

I think you are quite delusional or gullible enough to believe your own lies.

And yes, your statements are lies as you cannot show any reliable source for any of your speculative nonsense.



Sure. Hura for all genocidal Gods.



I guess there are still Gnostic churches around, according to this Roman Catholic forum at Let me share an answer, from a real Gnostic poster there :smiley:

Just in case this is the last thread - last post - before they pull the plug. Let me dedicate a song to it. :laughing:

One of these band members, won the Nobel prize for literature. :open_mouth:

P.S.Someone told me that Alfred Nobel at invented dynamite. And I thought he invented door knockers. What, you ask? Just analyze the name. It says it all. “No-bel”.


Christians tried to wipe us out but did not succeed.

Thanks for the info.

Basically, Gnostic Christians are free thinkers. At least 25% of the world are free thinkers and Gnostic in attitude if not in name.

It is estimated that by 2050, free thinkers will overtake the non-free thinkers/theists. I hope it is sooner as women and gays deserve equality and an end to discrimination and denigration without a just cause that religions propagate.



I don’t believe God ordered any genocide. I also don’t believe in Adam and Eve, a worldwide flood, Joshua’s sunny overtime, animals who boink while looking at a striped-stick producing striped offspring; I’m also doubtful about the logistics of the Exodus. Now before you pronounce me closet-gnostic or Marcionite, I also doubt some stuff from the New Testament, like the account of the resurrected saints. I am no fundamentalist. But I reject the idea that The Good is a combination lock that we must figure out; I rather believe and hope that The Good comes to us, all the way down.

I am holding fast to what is good; you are promoting a self-study salvation course that few can pass.


For a “free-thinker,” you are pretty judgmental of other’s beliefs. And the assumption that the rest of us don’t think “freely,” wow! :open_mouth:

Gnosticism is spiritual masturbation.


No. If I can do it, anybody can as I am not special min any way.

I am just your average free thinker.

Only fools will think that they need salvation from immoral Gods.

Good is not what comes down to us but it is what we decide is good just as we decide what is evil.

Secular law has shown how poor the morality of the religions are.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.



Indeed. I rely on my own judgements as compared to letting others do my thinking for me.

You should try it.



Maybe you should stop relying on your judgments; they seem to suck.


Whiny little bitches think so because they cannot refute my judgements and can only try to insult as they leave the debate or discussion…

Tuck your mental tail and run away.