Universalism's Difference to "Sinning Boldly"?

[Prince_Myshkin]

Hi Everybody,

I’m sure most of you are familiar with Luther’s statement re “sinning boldly”. Surely, it has been misappropriated as cheap grace, but on the other hand, it has been a real consolation to me on some dark nights of soul.

Anyway, I am curious as to some of your experiences with sanctification since becoming universalists, especially if you had a long period as a Cal or Arm before coming to universalism. That is, have you found it easier to be holy since realizing the truth of UR - or - do you find yourself “sinning boldly” (and perhaps that is holier than external holiness if you get my drift)?

I ask because I am struggling with some nagging sin that is very tempting and it is SOOOOO easy for me to write off in the face of universalism. Hehe, i have daydreams of Luther drinking from steins and saying goodbye to emaciation (though my particular nagging sin isn’t gluttony or drunkenness, i like his relative peace of mind). Mind you, as a universalist I still believe that God has wrath for sin and you reap what you sow to a large extent. Yet, it takes the edge off. Not that there is any necessary connection between Luther and universalism (though I think they are connected and I would even argue that Luther was a proto-universalist of a sort); when i believe that i am saved no what and God loves me no matter what, it is much easier for me to justify sin. Now, if i wasn’t shallow, i should be more of the mentality - Jesus has paid such a high price for my redemption - why wallow in the muck? Of course, to me the beauty of Luther’s theology is that he stressed the state of sin, more more than sins, and that perhaps thumbing your nose to grace is far, far, far worse than worrying about a nagging sin…

Ach, it is becoming a ramble but I’m sure you all know where I’m coming from and I’d appreciate your feedback.

[Eaglesway]

As a “biblical universalist”, I believe sanctification is important- but only as grace, growing from wthin, not as law pressed down upon one from without. Walking as a disciple of Jesus is still at the core of the gospel.

The paradigm of eternal torment deposited a deception that still affects many universalists.

When we heave a sigh of relief that there is no eternal torment, a lot of things happen inside, and I believe God is patient and gracious, but the consequences of “agreeing with sin” are serious and to be avoided- according to the testimony of the Savior and all the apostles. Peter, James, Jude and Paul all have strongly worded exhortations about this struggle.

We were not saved “from hell”. We are saved to become “new creatures in Christ”- to walk as His children and be conformed to His image.

We may often fail, so John offers- “if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.

Paul offers, “As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me”, along with, “with my mind I serve the law of God but there is another principle working in my members”, and “Who shall deliver me from the body of this death”

He concludes, “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit” (Rom 7 and 8)

Those are anyone one who agrees with the law in their hearts, regardless of their ability to keep it(no one can).

We cannot confess what we will not own as sin, so if we “sin boldly”, we incur consequences, disciplines, chastisements, etc.

It is better to “agree with your adversary quickly lest He deliver you to the judge and he delivers you to the jailer”.

If to “sin boldy” means to honestly confess our weakness, that is one thing, If to “sin boldly” means to have an indifferent attitude towards the consequences of sin because of the grace of God- that is using grace “as a license to sin” and (imo) leads to shipwreck.

I believe when we agree with God about recurring sins in our life He will forgive us, even to “70 x 7”. Sometime the grace to overcome takes time because there are often deeper issues behind the things we have difficulty overcoming- anything from wounds sufferred as children to legalistic foundations and a corrupted view of God to attitudes of rebellion that have yet to be corrected in the crucible of life.

But I think we ought to make no mistake about it. We are called to be disciples. Called to shine.

So the issue becomes prayer. Re ceiving forgiveness and acknowledging our need for more of the Spirit to strengthen our souls- and also to agree with God that it is sin, and then trust Him to wash us and trust that He will strengthen us to overcome and teach us to walk in victory.

It is a lifelong battle. 40 years in Christ and I struggle everyday. I am so thankful for His patience and His grace, and I still respect His displeasure and believe there is a judgment for the persistently wicked, “For God is not mocked- whatsoever a man sows so shall he also reap”.

[anon12438761]

Oh well said EW!!