The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Universalist References in Christian and Mainstream Music

Evangelical Universalism
#1

As a musician, I take great pleasure in discovering references about universal reconciliation (or hints, at the very least) in songs–tho I wish it would happen more often. Once in a while, I’ll notice in a particular hymn, praise chorus, or Christian rock song something that definitely makes me go “hmmmm, oh yeah.” Anybody else experience that?

Of course, when I hear something like that in a secular song–or, most recently, in Christmas songs sung by mainstream artists–it makes me smile. I think I smile because I am rejoicing at the thought of having stumbled upon such a lofty truth in a setting within which I do not often find such words (tho I wonder whether the artist or songwriter is even aware of what they are stating in the song lyrics). I realize sometimes I am reading a bit more into the song than might have been intended, but it still fascinates me when it happens.

I thought it would be interesting and fun to cite some examples. I’ll begin–and since we’re in the midst of the festive and deeply introspective holiday season, perhaps it will be fitting to look at some of the words that are actually being sung these days…

Recently, while listening to the traditional carol, “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel,” I heard this in one of the verses:

( youtube.com/watch?v=i2XHOcR3 … re=related )

What a bold, powerful declaration!

Here’s another snippet, from “Christ Is Born,” a song featured in The Carpenters’ Christmas Portrait album:
**

Hear the joyful angels singing
Alleluia, Alleluia

He is born

Let us adore him
Christ the Lord
King of Kings
Prince of Peace
For all the universe
Alleluia, Alleluia **( youtube.com/watch?v=JjvwcFJg6Og )

This is from Chris Isaak’s “Brightest Star,” featured on his Christmas CD:
**

I think of all I’ve done
And still you care for me

Your love
You give it away
I fall to my knees and I pray

Your love

And in the crowd I smile and listen
As the children sing
Their voices caroling
Each time it means one thing

Your love
You give it away
I fall to my knees and I pray

Your love
Your love
I praise your love**

Another example (not a seasonal one this time) is from my all-time favorite band, U2, from their brilliant soul-searching anthem, “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For”:

(youtube.com/watch?v=GSv-lKwOQvE )

Perhaps it’s a bit vague, but I see the “UR” in it nonetheless.

And one more, for now, from a Christian artist named Chris Rice. The song is “And Your Praise Goes On.”:
**

To Your arms I’ll fly
I’ll gaze into Your eyes
Then I’ll know as I am known
And Your praise goes on
And Your praise goes on
And Your praise goes on**( youtube.com/watch?v=F2bAnLYdHE8 )

David

#2

A lot of our worship music, from old hymns to contemporary choruses, from the deepest, most contemplative to the fluffiest, carries undertones of Universalism. I find it absolutely fascinating, since most of the artists and composers would deny being Universalists, as would most of those that joyfully sing the songs in worship. The conflict between the heart that longs for God to save the world and the mind that pessimistically declares that He cannot or will not do it is never clearer than in a church that expresses belief in a hopeless, eternal Hell in its statement of faith and then turns right around and sings that the love of God “reaches to the lowest Hell.” They sing about “streams of mercy, never ceasing,” while warning in their sermons that mercy will one day be cut off. Children’s songs about the God who’s “got the whole world in His hands” belie doctrine that insists that most of the world will be ripped out of His hands.

Deep in the heart of Christians is the hope of the ultimate victory of God, and while bad theology obscures that hope, music has a way of bringing it out.

#3

I agree snitzelhoff. :confused:

#4

Thank you David for bringing up this topic. Music is a great passion of mine. Our family was involved with our church’s worship team for about 10 years. I have noticed a definite turn in emphasis from an individual worship of God and by “God’s people” to more of calling upon the “nations”, the “universe”, “all creation” and “all the earth” to come and worship God. It seems instinctive. I believe we know in our hearts what our theology hasn’t caught up with yet.

It is indeed crazy how we can sing things we are not supposed to say and not supposed to believe!

I devoted an entire page on our website to songs that mention these themes. One song I haven’t put on the website list yet is “Joy to the World”…

Here’s a recent one by Hillsong:

I have the lyrics to many more songs on the site with links to Youtube and also a list of additional songs; about 30 in all.
Here’s the link to my page of additional songs: godslovewins.com/songs.htm

grace and peace,
phillip
godslovewins.com

#5

Snitzelhoff,
I love the way you said what you just said. That was excellent! :smiley: May I quote you on my blog?

#6

Those are excellent examples, Phillip! Thank you for sharing them. I’ll definitely look at the others in your web page.

Grace and Peace to you too!

Yes, definitely!

David

#7

Here is another I don’t yet have on the website by Gungor, When Death Dies:

Here it is on Youtube; youtu.be/r2-KCJGPHe0

godslovewins.com

#8

Phillip,

Thank you! :smiley: Be my guest!

#9

Oh I love it when that happens!

I can understand hearing URish music and then hearing ECT theology from the same musician.Theology is for the mind of humanity, it is not very reliable to be honest. Music is truth for the spirit, why do you think God included a whole book of songs in the bible? The truth of God saving all people can be found in the hearts of most if not all Christians. The mind will most of the time say no, yet the mind is not the one who knows the depths of God does it? It is the Spirit that searches the depths of God and reveals them to us.

Here’s one song I love from David Crowder Band’s song Happiness,

And of course Gungor is one of the best to get inspiration from (he’s a closet universalist, I swear it!). From his song Dry Bones

#10

try a band called clear the song is titled rain , one of the most beautiful songs I’ve heard :wink:

#11

Hillsong United, “You Said” (part of the song)

*You said Your glory will fill the earth
Oh, Like water the seas
You said, “Lift up your eyes
The harvest is here; the kingdom is near”

You said, “Ask and I’ll give the nations to you”
O Lord, that’s the cry of my heart
Distant shores and the islands will see
Your light, as it rises on us*

You know, if some oddly selective cataclysm wipes out all of our books and essays and articles but somehow leaves behind our music, in a thousand years if historians tried to reconstruct from our music what Christians have believed throughout the ages, I think they’d come to the conclusion that we were mostly Universalist.

#12

True! And I think it’s because when we sing, we affirm the positive things we believe – the things which are good and worthy of praise: hope, love, salvation, the promises of God, God’s sovereignty. And we use scriptural phrases – which are largely universalistic.

In church on Sunday, one of the pastors prayed a beautiful closing prayer, praising God for his salvation and at one point saying, “…so that ALL people will … (pause) … will at least have a chance to come to know you.” LOL I was sorry he felt the need to edit the words his heart had sent to his tongue – it’s sad that people feel like they can’t pray sincerely for the salvation of all – but pretty cool nevertheless to see what his inclination was to pray.

Sonia

#13

I believe music is one of God’s greatest gifts to people. :slight_smile:

A couple examples of some of my favorite songs that have some UR undertones:

From the lovely Secret Garden song, Winter Light, by Linda Ronstadt:

‘Hearts call, hearts fall,
swallowed in the rain,
who knows, life grows
hollow and so vain,
wandering in the winter light,
the wicked and the sane,
bear witness to salvation
and life starts over again.’

And from Mumford and Sons’ song Sigh No More:

‘Love; it will not betray you
Dismay or enslave you, it will set you free
Be more like the man you were made to be.’

And from their beautiful and moving song After The Storm:

‘And there will come a time you’ll see
with no more tears,
and love will not break your heart
but dismiss your fears,
get over your hill and see
what you find there,
with grace in your heart
and flowers in your hair.’

Bryan Ferry’s song, Is Your Love Strong Enough, from the film, Legend, always resonated with me as it asked the same kinds of questions that eventually led me to embrace UR:

'Just one step at a time
And closer to destiny
I knew at a glance
There’d always be a chance for me
With someone I could live for
Nowhere I would rather be

Is your love strong enough
Like a rock in the sea
Am I asking too much
Is your love strong enough?

Just one beat of your heart
And stranger than fantasy
I knew from the start
It had to be the place for me
Someone that I would die for
There’s no way I could ever leave

Is your love strong enough
Like a rock in the sea
Am I asking too much
Is your love strong enough?

Is your love strong enough?
Just one beat of your heart
Is your love strong enough?
Is your love strong enough?
Is your love strong enough?
Is your love strong enough?
Is your love strong enough?

Just one beat of your heart
Strong enough?
Strong enough?
Just one beat of your heart
Strong enough?
Strong enough?
Just one beat of your heart
Strong enough?
Strong enough?
Just one beat of your heart
Strong enough?
Strong enough?
Just one beat of your heart
Strong enough?
Strong enough?
Just one beat of your heart’

The song Cactus In The Valley, by one of my favorite musicians, Lights:

‘I never meant to wither
I wanted to be tall
Like a fool, left the river
And watched my branches fall.
Old and thirsty, i longed for the flood
To come back around
To the cactus in the valley,
That’s about to crumble down
And wipe the mark of sadness from my face
Show me that your love will never change
If my yesterday is a disgrace
Show me that you still recall my name.
So the storm finally found me and left me in the dark
In the cloud around me, i don’t know where you are
If this old world goes up in arms, all i can do is
stand
And i wont fight for anyone until you move my hands.
And wipe the mark of madness from my face
Show me that your love will never change
If my yesterday is a disgrace,
Tell me that you still recall my name.
Oh here, in this shadow;
Here i am
And i need someone by my side.
It becomes so
Hard to stand
And i keep trying to dry my eyes.
Come and find me
In the valley.
And Wipe the mark of sadness from my face,
show me that your love will never change.
And if my yesterday is a disgrace,
Tell me that you still recall my name.
And wipe the mark of madness from my face
Show me that your love will never change.
And if my yesterday is a disgrace
Tell me that you’ll still recall my name.
Oh tell me that you’ll still recall my name.
Oh tell me that you’ll still recall my name.’

I admit that I don’t really listen to a lot of worship music, but there’s a few that have grabbed my attention… here’s one that has some UR undertones, I think… Jesus Culture’s One Thing Remains:

'Higher than the mountains that I face
Stronger than the power of the grave
Constant through the trial and the change
One thing remains
One thing remains

Your love never fails it never gives up it never runs out on me
On and one and on and on it goes
It overwhelms and satisfies my soul
And I never ever have to be afraid
One thing remains

In death and in life I’m confident and covered by the power of your great love
My debt is paid there’s nothing that can separate my heart from your great love’

Well, there’s a few examples :slight_smile:

Thanks for starting such a cool thread Psalmist :slight_smile:

And awesome comment, snitzelhoff :slight_smile:

And thanks for the recommend, stuartd :slight_smile: I think I’ve heard of that band somewhere. I checked it out, and it’s a great song. :slight_smile:

Blessings to you all :slight_smile:

Matt

#14

I’ll have to give that one a listen. I became a Bryan Ferry fan when a friend loaned me Frantic, a CD he released in 2002. Ended up getting my own copy, and it has become one of my favorites.

I’ll also give “Cactus in the Valley” a listen.

Ditto.

You’re welcome, Matt! (Almost called you Edward.) :smiley:

#15

Thanks to all for the song lyrics. Feel free to keep ‘em comin’!

Can’t go to bed without posting one from Mark Heard, my favorite male solo artist (asleep, but very much awake in my heart and ears)…

**It Will Not Be Like This Forever

When in the course of human events
The darker side takes precedence
And wise men fall and fools take charge
And feign a naive innocence
And blood runs cold at our own expense
And we tend to ignore our ignorance:
I know it will not be like this forever

OH - IT WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THIS WAY
OH - THIS CURTAIN WILL BE TORN AWAY

When righteousness almost prevails
But loses out to what sells well
And life goes on and numbness takes
The bitterness from the taste of hell
Years of error leave a trail
And still we walk it meaning well:
I know it will not be like this forever

OH - IT WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THIS WAY
OH - THIS CURTAIN WILL BE TORN AWAY

When our sense of true significance
Is shackled by an electric fence
In hearts that do not understand
The nature of the elements
When what we are gets left for dead
In the silent shadow of the lives we’ve led:
I know it will not be like this forever
OH - IT WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THIS WAY
OH - THIS CURTAIN WILL BE TORN AWAY

Written by Mark Heard © 1984 Kenwood Music**

May the riches of His grace be upon all of you…

David

#16

You’re welcome :slight_smile:

#17

Several artists have recorded this relatively new holiday song…Amazing how we are all wishing that love would never end. Why? Because it is a providentially instilled yearning of the human heart, at its most foundational and sincere…

**Grown-up Christmas List

Do you remember me?
I sat upon your knee.
I wrote to you with childhood fantasies.
Well, I’m all grown up now,
But still need help somehow.
I’m not a child, but my heart still can dream.

So here’s my lifelong wish,
My grown-up christmas list,
Not for myself, but for a world in need:

No more lives torn apart,
That wars would never start,
And time would heal all hearts.
Ev’ry one would have a friend,
That right would always win,
And love would never end:
This is my grown-up Christmas list.

As children we believed
The grandest sight to see
Was something lovely wrapped beneash the tree.
Well, heaven surely knows
That packages and bows
Can never heal a hurting human soul.

No more lives torn apart,
That wars would never start,
And time would heal all hearts.
Ev’ry one would have a friend,
That right would always win,
And love would never end:
This is my grown-up Christmas list.

What is this illusion called the innocence of youth?
Maybe only in our blind belief can we ever find the truth!

No more lives torn apart,
That wars would never start,
And time would heal all hearts.
Ev’ry one would have a friend,
That right would always win,
And love would never end:
This is my grown-up Christmas list.**

(music by David Foster, lyrics by Linda Thompson-Jenner, additional lyrics by Amy Grant)

David

#18

I see quiet a bit of ‘‘the whole of creation groans’’ in secular music here is the most poetic band ever ,
the song is ‘‘cemetery gates’’ by , the Smiths

‘‘so we go inside and gravely read the stones , all those people all those lives where are they now ?
with loves and hates and passions just like mine , they were born and then they lived and then they died
seems so unfair I want to cry’’

or their hauntingly beautiful ‘‘asleep’’ - ‘‘there is a better world , there must be’’

#19

The church I used to attend (Calvinist) changed the words of some great old hymns. Here is their version of the first verse of “To God Be the Glory”:

To God be the glory, great things He hath done;
So loved He the world that He gave us His Son,
Who yielded His life, an atonement for sin,
And opened the lifegate, that we may go in.

Did you catch the difference? “And opened the lifegate, that *we *may go in” (i.e., the “elect”) instead of “that *all *may go in.” Wouldn’t want to suggest that *everybody *might go in!

How about their version of “And Can It Be”:

He left his Father’s throne above
(so free, so infinite his grace!),
humbled himself (so great his love!)
and bled for all his chosen race!
'Tis mercy all, immense and free,
for, O my God, it found out me!

The real one says:

He left His Father’s throne above
So free, so infinite His grace—
Emptied Himself of all but love
And bled for Adam’s helpless race:
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!

Even before I had any idea about UR, I refused to sing the adulterated versions. I just knew something wasn’t right about the idea that only “we the chosen” could go in.

I love the last verse of “For All the Saints.” I picture the nations (the nations—the sworn enemies of the Lord!) streaming in to the heavenly city to receive healing from the tree of life:

From earth’s wide bounds, from ocean’s farthest coast,
Through gates of pearl streams in the countless host,
And singing to Father, Son and Holy Ghost:
Alleluia, Alleluia!

#20

Fascinating insights, Diane. I see the alteration of well-established hymn lyrics as a very desperate attempt to convey a specific theological position in a manner which is unethical–and highly disturbing.