The Evangelical Universalist Forum

UR's..The days of Awe and the book of life...

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#1

Everyone

I believe Rosh Hashanah ( feast of Trumpets) man is judged and his doom is sealed on the Day of Atonement. The last days from the Trumpets to Atonement, are know as the days of Awe. I believe the days of Awe are symbolic of the final days which repentance is possible. :wink:

Teshuvah is a Hebrew word describing the Judaic and Christian tradition of repenting and turning our lives around. We described Teshuvah as lasting thirty days for repentant Christians and forty days for others. The last ten days of Teshuvah, the days from Trumpets to Atonement, are known as the Days of Awe.

What are the days of Awe and what do they mean to us?

First, let’s go back and review the process of Teshuvah and what it means. Teshuvah means to return, to turn around, and to repent. The period of Teshuvah began on Elul 1, 20 August 2009. In it we are to ask God for the ability to see the sins of the last year and ask Him for forgiveness as each one comes to mind. However, sins which were committed against another person must be forgiven by that person against whom the sin was done. In other words, we are to seek forgiveness from others for the sins and offenses we, as individuals, have committed against them. In turn, if a person who has offended us does not seek forgiveness, it is our obligation to go to that person and give them the opportunity to ask forgiveness. We also talked about how there are sins of omission and sins of commission.

Mat. 6:12 says “Forgive us our sins against You as we forgive those who have sinned against us.”

Think how these words apply to us personally. The importance of the thirty day Teshuvah in the month of Elul, is that those who repent during this time (prior to the return of our Messiah) will have their names written in the “Book of Life” and will not have to go through the further repentance during the more difficult “Days of Awe.” There are several scriptures which describe how disaster can follow a lack of repentance:

2 Pet 3:9-11 (NKJV) The Lord is not slack concerning promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering (patient) toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. {10} But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. {11} Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

This scripture in 2 Peter 3 teaches the same message of repentance and forgiveness before the Day of the Lord as Zeph 2:1-3. Let= s look at it:

Zeph 2:1-3 (NKJV) Gather yourselves together, yes, gather together, O undesirable nation, {2} Before the decree is issued, or the day passes like chaff, before the LORD’S fierce anger comes upon you, before the day of the LORD’S anger comes upon you! {3} Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth, who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of the LORD’S anger.

For those who did not attain to being entered into the “Book of Life” on the first day of judgement, on Yom Teruah or Trumpets, a second period of time is given for repentance. This time period is much more severe. It is known as Yamin Nora’im, (Yah-meen Norah’eem) the ‘awesome days’ or the ‘days of trouble.’ This would be considered one’s last chance for repentance.

According to Jewish tradition, on Rosh HaShanah (Trumpets), God sits on His throne of judgment and three books are opened. They are the ‘Book of Life,’ the ‘Book of Death,’ and the ‘Book of the Intermediates.’ Those written in the ‘Book of Life’ are the totally righteous who have fully repented of their sins, and had their repentance accepted by God. Those written in the ‘Book of Death’ are the totally wicked who are fit only for destruction. The vast majority of people are written in the ‘Book of Intermediates.’ These people have until Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) to repent and be written in the ‘Book of Life.’ If they do not repent, they will be written in the ‘Book of Death.’

It is said that, “man is judged on Trumpets and his doom is sealed on the Day of Atonement.”

Rev 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

As long as the ‘gates of heaven’ are open, access to God is available to those who wish to have their names moved from the ‘Book of Intermediates’ to the ‘Book of Life.’ One thing seems sure, after the complete and final fulfillment of Yom Kippur (Atonement) takes place, apparently after the one thousand year millennial reign of Christ, no one will have their name written in the ‘Book of the Intermediates;’ everyone will be in either the ‘Book of Life’ or the ‘Book of Death.’ As converted Christians, we know that it is only through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus that our names can be entered into the ‘Book of Life.’ But it is also imperative that each converted Christian has come to true repentance for their sins. The Days of Awe are symbolic of the final days during which repentance is possible.

On Trumpets the whole world stands in judgment before God and deserves to be found guilty. Only those whose sins have been forgiven through their previous acceptance of the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ are worthy to be found not guilty. This acquittal is not rendered because of their own righteousness or works, but because the righteousness of Yeshua * has been applied to them through repentance.

In conclusion:

The Days of Awe start on or immediately after the Feast of Trumpets, when historically, the Temple doors were left open until the end of the Day of Atonement. Next Sabbath, 19 September, is the Feast of Trumpets, better named Yom Teruah or the Day of Acclamation. Atonement is only 9 days later - September 28th. I hope that everyone who hears this message already has his name in God= s Book of Life. These Days of Awe picture the days that are set aside for the repentance and forgiveness of those who are not in the Book of Life, those who will have to experience God= s wrath before they are motivated enough to turn to God in deep-felt repentance. It is my fervent prayer that none of us finds ourselves in that situation through lack of repentance. :wink:

Source: Hebrew roots magazine*

#2

Tradition has it that ‘The Book of Intermediates’ is, itself, divided into three books:

‘The Book of You’re Bad, But Not Too Bad’

'The Book of the Truly So-So."

“The Book of Finding a Good Jewish Attorney on the Other Side of the Veil”

Aaron, you’re adding the “Book of Intermediates” to TheRev. Not good, according to the author. You are going soooooooooo straight to hell.

#3

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Honestly I don’t mind the book symbolically speaking, as there are definitely TONS of intermediates who pretty much have no idea what’s going on and need some more information before they’re able to pick a side. But I don’t think it’ll just be during a time of great tribulation and definitely not just after the saints are gone in some rapture. There has to be a bright white testimony to the light as well in order for people to be able to make up their minds.

The whole point is to clearly distinguish the good from the bad, and to recompense everyone for what they’ve done. Currently doing good bears no necessary physically pleasurable consequence, but after this huge paradigm shift it will. Satan will be bound up, no longer able to punish those who obey Sacrificial Love Himself. And wickedness will be punished with immediately negative consequences. This will become clearer and clearer as the end of the age draws to a close.

Everyone will see Christianity for what it really is - not sick, perverted, institutionalized, nonsensical, demonic and hateful, but beautiful, free-flowing, everlasting, amazingly loving, enrapturing, reasonable, sensible and pure.

There’s a veil over the eyes of not only the religious folks, but the ones the Pharisees have bagged up and thrown into the river, and the general populace which has become overly disgusted with all their antics. The waves of lawlessness will overcome the religious world and all that will be left are the pure, who will take a devastated world by storm with love.

#4

Ran, I’m not adding anything to the book of Rev. I suggest you go back and read this post again to clear up your confusion. :wink:

#5

As symbols go, there is a reason the rest the of the NT didn’t use it: It eclipses and side-steps Christ. They preferred sacrifice and redemption which are not symbolic but actual to explain the situation; namely, salvation. Which is not to be based on a symbol. The further Aaron takes us from the Savior of all men, the more bizarre this conversation will become.

#6

Aaron,
So, now your belief is that people are entered into the book of life either on the day of Judgment or in the time between Judgment and the day of Atonement? Is that correct?

How do you now understand the phrase “before the foundation of the world” in John’s Revelation?

Sonia

#7

Sonia, I really do appreciate your respectful responses…unlike some people on this board. I’m working on my corrective post that will tie all of this together.

God bless,
Aaron

#8

Actually,the rest of the NT did. But you’re absolutely right.

#9

Hmmm… nope it doesn’t actually say anything about a book (i.e. a scroll) of intermediates, much less a book of death, in RevJohn. RevJohn talks about a book of life (by name) and a book of deeds (by close implication).

Those other two books (Intermediates and Death) are an inference you’re reading into the text. (Or that your article’s equally anonymous author is reading into it, perhaps. :wink: )

I don’t hold that against you–just pointing out the irony of your insistence elsewhere on (supposedly) exegeting “line by line” and sticking only to what it says “without adding words”. :slight_smile:

Meanwhile, I will point out two things worth noting from your article, which your article’s author forgot to note himself:

So, do you agree with what your anonymous author wrote here? Or do you disagree with him on this point?

And if you agree, do you also agree with what RevJohn explicitly and positively has to say about this specific topic? Or do you disagree with RevJohn on this?

Because this particular bit of information has been pointed out to you before, regarding RevJohn itself, in direct context to the lake of fire judgment. At length. In meticulous detail. (Possibly more than once.)

There is no logically possible way to avoid a universalistic conclusion from RevJohn itself, so long as you agree with this statement from your author, A. Indeed, RevJohn itself testifies directly (in contextual connection to the lake of fire judgment) to exactly the contents of your author’s statement, once the pieces of the text are added up. This was pointed out to you in as much detail as anyone could possibly ask for. But you have chosen to ignore it, rather than deal with it, so far.

(Putting it in terms of your article’s principles: RevJohn only has a Book of Life, and a Book of Intermediates. No Book of Death.)

I think I can confidently say that any universalist has thought a lot harder about how those words apply to us personally, than any other Christian who expects God to not continually seek forgiveness to, salvation of, and reconciliation with (and among) sinners. :wink:

At any rate, I don’t retract hope of forgiveness (nor teach such a thing) concerning those who have sinned against me, up to and including Satan himself. How about you?

(True, the forgiveness cannot be completed unless Satan is ever repentant for his sins. But one key difference between Satan and any servant of Christ ought to be that one acts toward sin hyperexceeding grace to the cessation of grace, and the other acts toward grace hyperexceeding sin to the cessation of sin. You do know which one goes which way and which the other–right?!)

#10

Some other bits of information worth knowing in regard to Zephaniah:

Unlike many other prophets (going back at least as far as Moses–which, by the way, was discussed thoroughly with you, though you chose to ignore it, A), Zeph doesn’t seem to talk much, if at all, about the punishment of the coming day of the Lord being remedial for those it falls upon. Going only by Zeph and not considering the rest of scripture, it might seem at first that not only is a mere remnant to be saved (out of Israel, not from anywhere else including among the Gentiles–hardly the most Christian Gospel ever stated!), but that this remnant doesn’t even need to repent! They already do what is fair and humble in the sight of God, which is why they’ll be spared to inherit the earth after the cataclysmic judgment God will be bringing down sooner or later.

Zeph acknowledges that there may be humble people elsewhere than Israel who have carried out the ordinances of the Lord (although more likely he’s talking about the righteous among the Diaspora, since “ordinances” tends to mean following Torah in a legally faithful way, and the nations don’t actually have the Torah). But they may only “perhaps” find a place to hide when the zorching comes (2:3); the more sure revelation to Zeph is that God will make a complete end and indeed a terrifying end of all the inhabitants of the earth (1:18; also 1:2-3).

But that in itself shows Zeph is engaging in hyperbolic overstatement; he might mean God will destroy the righteous, too, in a terrifying way, and then resurrect them afterward, but he goes on to indicate that the righteous will surely be spared. So he doesn’t literally mean all the inhabitants of the earth will come to a complete and terrifying end. (Or, even if Zeph only understood it so far, God didn’t mean it that way.)

This naturally opens up the question of the extent to which he is engaging in hyperbolic overstatement elsewhere; which in turn allows the prophecy to synch up with other prophets where ultra-destruction of sinners leads into their repentance and subsequent restoration by God: rebel Israel itself being the chief example.

Even the restoration after ultra-punishment may be implied in Zeph, however, at 2:10-11, where the people in line to be punished are clearly not the righteous remnant, and yet the end result being aimed at is that “all the coastlands of the nations” will bow in sole loyalty to God “everyone from his own place”. This is an important contrast, since God opens this prophecy complaining about how even His own people refuse to be loyal to Him alone but insist on worshiping Milcom (a foreign deity) and “the host of heaven” (a term for angels, thus for rebel angels in this context) from their housetops and even in God’s own Temple at Jerusalem.

It’s probably also worth noting that Zeph is the prophet who combines the language typical for Babylon, or in this case “Ninevah” (but probably meaning Babylon at the time), as the chief of rebels against God (the exultant city who says in her heart “I am!–and there is no on besides me!”) with Jerusalem! (2:15-3-5).

In other words, Jerusalem herself (as a poetic entity) is being put on exact par with Babylon/Ninevah (as a poetic entity). Yet we know from other prophets (also mentioned in RevJohn, of course) that the Lord’s goal is for Jerusalem to be redeemed into the New Jerusalem as His eternal bride. (Even Zeph has some things to say about Jerusalem as His faithful bride after the fighting, 3:17, although the focus in Zeph is more specifically on those who have been loyal to God through all these tribulations.)

Ironically, despite his otherwise apparently hopeless punishment imagery (which as other scriptural texts go on to mention is only part of the story, and not in fact hopeless at all), it is Zephaniah who by revelation opens up the typological option of reading (rebel) Jerusalem for Babylon, and so by continuation of prophetic imagery elsewhere also reveals hope for the great adulteress and rebel Babylon (though not continuing as “Babylon” of course.)

But the scriptural connections between the image of Babylon and that of rebel Jerusalem, and how these are applied, could be entered into at much greater length. As could a study of Ancient Near Middle Eastern hyperbolic destruction language–culturally speaking, such proclamations are less about total accuracy to the result, and more a way to speak about the greatness of the one (in this case God) enacting the result.

(Meanwhile, the story of Jonah, the rebel prophet of God, ought to warn us about insisting on hopelessness for “Ninevah” in regard to God’s intentions toward “her”.)

#11

Jason,

Something while reading Zephaniah caught my eye. The term ‘punish’ is used frequently, especially in Chapter 1, in reference to the day of the LORD’s sacrifice. Looking up the word in the blue bible reveal this list of definitions which I find interesting:

  1. to attend to, muster, number, reckon, visit, punish, appoint, look after, care for

a) (Qal)

  1. to pay attention to, observe

  2. to attend to

  3. to seek, look about for

  4. to seek in vain, need, miss, lack

  5. to visit

  6. to visit upon, punish

  7. to pass in review, muster, number

  8. to appoint, assign, lay upon as a charge, deposit

b) (Niphal)

  1. to be sought, be needed, be missed, be lacking

  2. to be visited

  3. to be visited upon

  4. to be appointed

  5. to be watched over

c) (Piel) to muster, call up

d) (Pual) to be passed in review, be caused to miss, be called, be called to account

e) (Hiphil)

  1. to set over, make overseer, appoint an overseer

  2. to commit, entrust, commit for care, deposit

f) (Hophal)

  1. to be visited

  2. to be deposited

  3. to be made overseer, be entrusted

g) (Hithpael) numbered

h) (Hothpael) numbered

I don’t know the meaning of the words Qal, Niphal, and so forth, but it is revealing that the word carries meanings other than punish in the conventional sense. ‘Accountability’ come to mind. It is also revealing how the word in used in the it’s first occurrence in Leviticus:

*"And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:

And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.

And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins." - Leviticus 26:18-21*

This definitely has a feel of purification to me. Else if punishment meant death, I would think seven times would be literal overkill.

What is your assessment, Jason?

#12

I think it’s interesting that only one of those words is listed as possibly having the meaning “to punish” (out of several other meanings), although other meanings may mean the same thing metaphorically (i.e. being called to account). It might be worth checking the Hebrew in that scroll to see which words are being used at one time.

However, I think it should be noted that the contextual language and imagery sure seems to indicate punitive action of some kind. So translating those words as “punish”, although other possibilities may be feasible, probably isn’t faulty.