The Evangelical Universalist Forum

UR's..Yom Kippur and how Jews view the book of life..

I’ll get to that sometime when I have time–sounds interesting. Meanwhile, have you found that scripture reference yet? I haven’t been able to.

Thanks,
Sonia

What’s frustrating is dealing with people like you and Ran that make thoughtless comments all the time and having to constantly repeat myself because you refuse to accept what has been established in scripture. What part of my arguement is unbiblical, Stellar?

I’ll get to that sometime when I have time–sounds interesting. Meanwhile, have you found that scripture reference yet? I haven’t been able to.

Thanks,
Sonia

No, I have not found a scripture reference for every man’s name who ever lived to be found in the book of life. :laughing:

Here is the scripture of Yom Kippur before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Until the Destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70, the focal point of Yom Kippur involved the High Priest entering the Holy of Holies. The high priest sacrificed a bullock as a sin offering for himself and for his house. (Leviticus 16:6)

After filling his censer with live coals from the altar, he entered the holy of holies where he placed incense on the coals. Next, he took some of the blood which was taken from the slain bullock and sprinkled it on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant (Leviticus 16:13) and also on the ground in front of the mercy seat, providing atonement for the priesthood (Leviticus 16:14-15).

Then he sacrificed a male goat as a sin offering for the people. Some of this blood was then also taken into the holy of holies and sprinkled there on behalf of the people (Leviticus 16:11-15). Next, the high priest took another goat (called the “scapegoat”), laid his hands on its head, and confessed over it the sins of Israel.

After the confession, the scapegoat was released it into the desert where it symbolically carried away the sins of the people (Leviticus 16:8,10). The remains of the sacrificial bullock and male goat were taken outside of the city and subsequently burned; the day finally concluded with some additional sacrifices.

According to Jewish custom, three books are opened on the Feast of Trumpets: the Book of Life for the righteous, the Book of Life for the unrighteous, and the Book of Life those for in-between.

If a man is deemed righteous, his name is written in the Book of Life for the righteous at the Feast of Trumpets. If a man is unrighteous, his name is written in the Book of Life for the unrighteous, and he will not survive the year.

If a man is deemed in-between, judgment is delayed for ten days from the Feast of Trumpets to the Feast of the Day of Atonement. It is during that period of time that a man is given opportunity to repent before the book is closed and his destiny sealed.

The scripture references for the books are Psalm 69:28 and Exodus 32:32-33 ; Deut 9:14.

Hi Aaron,
We seem to be having difficulty communicating. Let’s break it down even smaller. Please find where God commands the following:

Sonia

Of course the Jews have been wrong about little details of interpretation before - like the Messiah! :wink:

This has turned into a very silly thread. Aaron, you’re digging a hole that you can’t get out of…

We were waiting for your explanation via divine revelation…and you come up with a cut-and-paste article about Jewish traditions that put you squarely in the BadBook for being a Christian, a blasphemer.

Your argument is, frankly, a hodgepodge of contradictions and nonsense. I suppose you’ll say the same thing about UR - but you will have to look elsewhere than the Book of Life to prove UR wrong.

I have no idea why I would spend time writing up any detailed study on this post, when you’ve already demonstrated that you have exactly no intention of dealing with any detailed study on your posts, Aaron. (Including, as Jeff pointed out, back when you derided the whole notion of looking into such things–when you thought they might not suss out in your favor.)

I am, however, waiting for you to comment on how you accept that a one-way spiritual metaphorphosis, indicated by being written into the Book of Life (can you be clear which book of life that is, btw?–I mean which of the three according to non-Christian Jewish tradition?), is blotted out of that book of life. Stellar’s question is a good one, and deserves an actual answer from you. You’re welcome to point to where it explains this in your (equally anonymous) article, if you like; or in scripture, if you prefer.

(I’ve already long since commented on just this topic myself, in much detail, from scripture; but then, you aren’t willing to deal with that when given in answer to you, so we’re back to the question of why anyone would deal with you on this–when we see no evidence that you’ll behave any differently from past experience, repeated multiple times including just recently, and actually deal with any detailed answers on our part.)

There are, of course, those of us who are familiar with these topics, both from a UR and from a non-UR standpoint. (I’ve recently read extensive commentary on it from both kinds of authors in the past three months, as part of my own studies, although I would hardly claim to be any authority on it myself yet.) Until you show you’re willing to actually talk about such things rather than throwing them up for us to unthinkingly accept, though, at best it’s a curiosity piece for us to discuss among ourselves without you.

For that matter, you have yet to demonstrate in any way that you even understand these things. It could just be copy-paste parroting so far, based on the mere fact that the words “Book of Life” were found in an article somewhere on the internet (and it clearly wasn’t promoting some kind of universalism.)

At any rate, this is hardly a way to answer my in-depth analysis of a topic you insisted we comment on to you. (An analysis I took the time to write up myself, incorporating pieces I also took the time to write up myself, after extensive study and prayer.)

We shouldn’t be too hard on Aaron37. He’s digging and trying and what more can we ask of a non-universalist. I charged Aaron a few posts back that if we are to test his words how can we test them if we cannot ask questions or if he will not answer. It’s no different than us.

We should not expect any Christian to come on board to defent ECT and them come from a nuetral position to learn. Aaron37 has believed that the BOL is an argument against Universalism and he’s learning it’s not an argument for ECT nor for U.

He’s already conceeded he was wrong in the OP and is revising his argument and that is a step in the right direction. What more can we ask. Of course we could ask that he also be a bit more humble and come forward and say “you guys were right, the OP was flawed”.

Here’s what Aaron’s trying to nail down and who can blame him:
There are those who are cast into hell because for some reason or another their names are not legible (blotted out or not written). It’s not unreasonable to find a disconnect for anyone who believes in ECT at all to ask such a question.

Aaron37,
understand there are different types of universalists. as EU we clearly endorse that there is a hell of which God reserves the right to save from. UU (ultra universalists) like ran or aaron endorse that no one will go to hell because everyone will be ressurected and they too have different reasons for their differences.

As EU’ists we believe God will cast people into hell (what ever that means) but that God (being love with unlimited mercy) reserves the right and ability to save them as he pleases (rom 9).

So yes, I believe the metaphor that those names not found in the BOL will go to hell. But as proof that God will not be able to save them later, I don’t see it.

Aug

I already told you, SEVERAL TIMES! That’s what’s frustrating. Someone else even picked up on this and asked you once again. WHERE in the Bible where it talks about the festival of the Day of Atonement does it say anything about books of life!?

Oftentimes Jews would add very many things to their festivals because they felt like they made them even more meaningful. But that doesn’t mean that those things were biblical or inspired by God, necessarily.

Other points of mine have been picked up by others and re-emphasized again (even by Jason, who you consider to give thoughtful responses, at least according to one post of yours). So how can you say that I’m being thoughtless in my own responses?

I’m not going to do your research for you. Moses referred to God’s book in Exodus 32:32-33 and King David referred to the book of the living in Psalm 69:28 "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. The book of the living is not the book of life. Notice David pleads with God for them not to be written with the righteous. (The book of life where the righteous are recorded) The rest is up to you to study, Justin. :unamused:

Okay, so obviously the Festival of Atonement mentions nothing about a book of life, so your point is moot, scripturally speaking. Unless you just want to argue from Jewish tradition. Did I get my thoughtless point across this time? :unamused:

Well, after the final judgment( Rev 20:11-15) or a foreshadow of Rosh Hashanah time will be up everyone’s destiny is revealed and sealed. There is no saving after God’s final judgment, Auggy. Its done.

When you first came to this forum, did you think you were just gonna encounter a bunch of wishy-washy pushovers who couldn’t defend their points worth a red cent cuz they hadn’t actually read their Bibles?

What a wake-up call, eh? :laughing: :unamused: :mrgreen:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosh_Hashanah

I guess I will help you a little bit. This is just one of many resources of Rosh Hashanah.

:unamused:

A,
Did you miss the bit where people asked you to give scripture refs?

Sonia

He’s just ignoring those requests… like he’s ignoring me now. Apparently RanRan’s okay, though. :laughing:

So Aaron, at some point are you saying God CANNOT or he WILL not have mercy? And after this judgement if God should decide to have mercy on them is this impossible in your view?

As best as I understand Paul, you nor anyone EVER has a right to tell God whom or when he can have mercy on anyone. Of course dispensationalists or ECT’ers all believe they have such a grasp of eschatology that they KNOW God will not have mercy on them because those in hell are dogs. I’m not convinced of your view. I am convinced of John’s revelation (in chapter 5) where EVERYTHING praises God. Tell me when does that happen before or after rosh Hoshanah.

Read my article " The days of Awe and the book of life" in this section of discussion negative. Eye opening stuff from the word of God. I don’t see how anyone can hold on to UR after reading this article…the symbolism of the Trumpets to the days of Awe relating how one is written or not written in the book of life is POWERFUL! Glory to God! :smiley:

Aaron37,

I hope you will take time to read my related thread here. I think you’ll find it interesting.

Dondi