What are the issues with ongoing sin in everlasting hell?

[Alex_Smith]

Here are some thoughts - feel free to comment/challenge/correct, or add to them

I think ongoing sin in everlasting hell would cause huge problems because:

*]It means God doesn’t get the free, loving worship (100% mind, body & spirit, like that commanded in Luke 10:27, Matt 22:37, Deut 6:5, etc) He deserves from everyone He created. I think the following support this biblical theme:

Praise is rightfully Yours, God, in Zion; vows to You will be fulfilled. All humanity will come to You, the One who hears prayer.

All the nations you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name.

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

note this parallels v3 where the phrase describes everyone except Christ. Yes, v9b talks about people from every tribe, etc. but these are to be the priests, i.e. the ones to bring Christ to everyone, so that v13 can occur.

By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return:
‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’

also picked up in Phil 2:9-10 - usually (always?) when Paul speaks of confession, it’s in the context of salvation e.g.:

If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

and isn’t superficial, e.g.:

Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

i.e. how are people sinning in hell in any way “to Him”??/*]

*]It decreases the victory of Christ in at least three ways:
a) Numerically. How impressive would Christ’s death & resurrection be if it saved no one? Surely less than if He saved some people. Therefore the quantity of people saved does matter, and thus if He can save everyone, then that’s a greater victory. I’d suggest the Parable of the Lost Sheep supports this idea.

b) Impact on sin. If sin continues, then I feel it diminishes passages like

“Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

and the concept that Christ’s gift/grace is greater than Adam’s trespass, & sin e.g. Rom 5:20. i.e. not only would the scope of Adam be greater than Christ, it would be longer (as its effects started earlier).

c) It reduces what He hands over to the Father because the subjection of Creation isn’t thorough. i.e. whilst people might verbally admit God is “boss”, their spirits & minds are still in rebellion - still hate & reject His authority over their lives. God is hardly “all in all” (being everything to everyone)./*]

*]Reconciliation & peace become largely unwilling subjugation (rather than restoring the profound harmony of Eden), in passages like

For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.

/*]

*]It means there will be ongoing sorrow because:
a) There would be victims who would never see perpetrators repent, but probably continue to display hatred towards them. Conversely there would be some perpetrators who would never have the opportunity to be reconciled to their victims (victims in hell wouldn’t be in a position to forgive them either).

b) Everyone would forever be separated from loved ones, and would see loved one continue to waste their potential & suffer. e.g. It always saddens me when my son sins, I’d hate to have to helplessly standby watching sin in hell forever. Sorrow is meant to cease:

On this mountain the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined. And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the Lord has spoken.

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will no longer exist; grief, crying, and pain will exist no longer, because the previous things have passed away.

/*]

*]Assuming God doesn’t change His view of sin, it means God would be forever angry, however there are passages like

For I will not accuse you forever, and I will not always be angry; for then the spirit would grow weak before Me, even the breath of man, which I have made.

which at very least show God doesn’t enjoy being angry./*]

[Cindy_Skillman]

One thing that bothered me is the idea that we know that God is everywhere and fills everything and encompasses everything. And hell is full of the worst evil and agony and all kinds of yuck. So how could our Father, our Lord, our beautiful Holy Spirit, endure to have that within Himself for all eternity? That never worked for me.

Add to that the concept that hell is where God is not . . . and where would THAT be? Is He omnipresent or isn’t He? In the Great Divorce, CS Lewis makes hell miniscule, but does that help? Either He fills all and contains all or else He doesn’t.

I think that what happened (at least one picture of it) is that Jesus entered hell and He DID fill it. He filled the unsatisfied grave; the grave that never says “It is enough,” and in so doing, He destroyed it. The sin is gone (that’s the sting of death) and the empty – the unquenchably empty – is filled. It is destroyed by being made wholesome and good and part of the Kingdom of light. The darkness doesn’t go away; it just gets filled with light.

[scottmuz]

One thing that bothered me is the idea that we know that God is everywhere and fills everything and encompasses everything. And hell is full of the worst evil and agony and all kinds of yuck. So how could our Father, our Lord, our beautiful Holy Spirit, endure to have that within Himself for all eternity? That never worked for me.

Whatever hell is and for however long it lasts God is there. It is as much part of God’s creation as is this sin affected creation.

CS Lewis seemed a little confused about this (although I know Lewis had universalistic sympathies as seems clear in the Great Divorce) in this quote from the Problem of Pain:

Finally, it is objected that the ultimate loss of a single soul means the defeat of omnipotence. And so it does. In creating beings with free will, omnipotence from the outset submits to the possibility of such defeat. What you call defeat, I call miracle: for to make things which are not Itself, and thus to become, in a sense, capable of being resisted by its own handiwork, is the most astonishing and unimaginable of all the feats we attribute to the Deity. I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside.

God cannot be locked out of anywhere. He is at work in hell and using hell to bring people to saving faith as he promises in Col 1:20 and many other places.