Hard to argue with that.
Whether the poor guy in the ditch on the side of the road is helped by a saint or by a sinner - the poor guy doesn’t care as long as he gets to the hospital, and maybe when he leaves he thanks God or maybe he doesn’t, but the original good deed itself was, well…good. And who knows? - maybe the saint was grudgingly doing his duty, and the sinner had a warm heart and giving spirit. It happens.
When we praise someone for doing good through his self-effort, we encourage him to become an arrogant b-----d!
When someone does good by the enabling grace of God, then it is God who gets and deserves the praise not only from the man himself but from others as well.
That is true. And there are the idea’s of angels and helpers from God.
We can all be the people God has put forth to help others.
But my point is that many of us can be angels. We can be the very persons God is using. Gotta roll with the creator. 
Ponder on that for a while.
God is indeed working.
Okayyyy… My “pondering” didn’t last even a minute until this sentence came to mind:
…all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment…(Isaiah 64:6 NAS95)
Looks as if God doesn’t think that highly of our righteous deeds—or should I say, “self-righteous deeds”?
I think that if we are trying to sway or fool God by doing good things for that purpose, that’s not going to get us anywhere.
OTOH people do good at times, and they are not thinking about God, perhaps, just wanting to help others. I cannot believe God would sneer at that. We are after all in his image, which is not completely broken.
More and more I’m thinking that it is the rulers of this world that have caused the wars, poverty, starvation, corruption - not the ‘common’ folk. Of course the common folk are not pure as the driven snow, either, far from it.
You are absolutely right Dave on both accounts… they do and He doesn’t.
Well, me thinks that God is indeed in control, and when folks do good things, even if they don’t know of any God, they are doing his will.
If they have a different God than you, so be it. They are still doing good. AND GOOD IS GOOD.
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Yes, and you see that principle in play right here…
Rom 2:14-15 …for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)…
True, but I don’t you would find Paul saying that either ‘group’ did NOT need a living relationship with Christ - for deliverance from sin, for hope of immortality etc.
Well, as I understand it… God HAS remediated the deliverance from sin issue; what remains is the opportunity in life to experience the inner peace knowledge of this brings — that’s the advantage of the gospel, and the doorway to service of God if one wills.
I know.
The thread was about ‘believing in Jesus’ and I was trying to address that even if obliquely.
Do I understand that such a belief is not important in your thought-system?
How might you draw that conclusion Dave?
I’m not drawing a conclusion at all, davo, just asking. It has been a question in the back of my mind for some time.
What does it mean to believe in Jesus, from your considered POV? For people right now, this point in history?
That’s a fair enough question… though I have answered that a lot over my time here. Belief is about coming into the service of God. All Israel was always God’s people, even when disobedient, but within Israel were certain ones in service of God to the rest… as such they knew particular blessing — I can’t see that as any different today, other than we live post end of the age etc.
Ok, but I’m focused on what belief in Jesus has to do with that, for today’s people. In their lives, now.
You have answered that a lot, but I can’t seem to get it clear in my mind.
It relates around knowing and realising the fact that the blessing of God was attained fully through Christ, God’s servant par excellence… thus any follower of Christ’s way (generally witnessed in confessed belief) becomes likewise an avenue or conduit for God’s blessing to others and that in whatever way one finds God’s gifting in one’s life.
Does that make sense?
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Thinking…
Yeah still…
Gonna sleep on it.
This will take some time on the back burner.
That is a way… I have come to disagree.
Cool Chad… give some more details as to where your head is at on this.